The Kiss Studio Albums

[The Picnic Wasp]

I'd never listened to any of this album before tonight. After reading the review I went straight to Under The Rose thinking I might solve the LZ possibility but I didn't hear it myself. However, I really, really enjoyed the track. I'd never have guessed this was Kiss if I hadn't been told beforehand. It's so folksy English Prog. I'll stream this tomorrow and already I think it's an album I will buy soon. This, and Destroyer. Yes, this is a good thread.

[Thenop]

Often referred to as 'close but no guitars' by Simmons and 'the biggest misstep in our career' by Stanley, the Elder is a concept album based on an idea Simmons had.

Of course, at the time the band were on cloud nine in all interviews, which was all they had. No tour for this one, honestly I would have like to have seen them pull this one off!

Frehley was mostly absent, phoning in his rhythm parts (if any) and recording his solos at his home studio, overseen by Ezrin who peddled back and forth between his own studio (in Canada) and Frehley's.

Roughly speaking there are 2 opninions amongst Kissfans: those that did not understand the album then, but get it now & those that did not get it then or now. I am in the third category: I loved it then and now.

The initial running order was not how the band intended it but the record company made them change it to ensure they opened with a single (The Oath). Mind you this was the time where you'd go to the shop and have them put the record on to listen before buying it.

The album itself, well I have a couple of versions. The initial Dutch release on LP that sounds fantastic, the CD, the remastered CD and the half speed LP master in the original running order. It's a bit bass heavy, but it suits the record.

The songs then, the odd ones out are Fanfare and Odyssey. The first one did not feature any of the band of course and Odyssey is a Tony Powers song sung in a very dramatic voice by Stanley. Not his most shining moment but it seems to suit (and set) the mood for the album. Drumming here is not Eric Carr but Allan Schwartzberg. Carr was a very talented boy but this feel he did not get.

Just a Boy is a gorgeous song with Stanley singing falsetto even at some point and Only You a Simmons song that seems popular still (re recorded by Doro Pesch when Simmons produced her album. True to the concept album style the Just a Boy chorus line makes an appearance instrumentally here.

One of the strongest and heaviest songs is Under the Rose, which was largely written by newcomer Eric Carr (who was a big LZ fan indeed). Simmons lend a hand with some chords here and there and I believe Lou Reed had a hand in lyrics. He also had a hand in A World Without Heroes, Dark Light and Mr. Blackwell, a friend of Ezrin he was quick to help.

Speaking of heavy songs: Mr. Blackwell with the stop start pattern is quite something and has that little bit of Gene demonic persona, seems he couldn't quite get rid of that..

A World Without Heroes is a lovely piece of music that was revived during the acoustic Unplugged tour some 15 years later and worked very well in that setting.
Getting to the more Kiss sounding songs then: I, the closer was the lead off single. Drums were overdubbed (Schwartberg again) and it's not quite clear which parts are his or which is Carr. It has a Shout it Out Loud type of exchange of vocals between Simmons and Stanley, strong song. The Oath is a clear Stanley track, and sounds like most Kiss albums even though he tries out his falsetto for the first time on such a strong track.

And then: Frehley's shining moment, Dark Light. That solo.. accompanied only by drums/percussion, is a thing of beauty. It may be the longest solo recorded on any Kiss record.  Originally Don't Run but renamed after Reed rewrote lyrics. I love this song.

Escape from the Island is basically a jam with Frehley, Carr & Ezrin in Ezrin's basement. I have always loved the pace pushing the song forward.

So there you go, it stands outside of the Kiss catalogue, none of it has been played live in a 'normal' Kiss setting. There's probably footage somewhere of band the doing half a version of The Oath or something, but the songs were never part of any setlist.

Frehley would record Breakout - a song he and Carr wrote - on one of his solo outings and the band itself would release Carrjam '81 on revenge as a tribute to the drummer.

[captainkurtz]

I remember the biggest disappointment for me with The Elder was that there was no pictures of the band on the cover or in the packaging.  At the time, that was as important for me as the music.

I do like it, though.  There's plenty of cracking tracks on it....I remember the video for A World Without Heroes was on Saturday morning kids TV.  That was huge for me at the time...

[Thenop]

I remember the biggest disappointment for me with The Elder was that there was no pictures of the band on the cover.

That's Paul Stanley's hand on the cover 

[Slim]

[Slim]

10. Creatures of the Night ((October 1982)

I was pleased, as a 22 year old Kiss fan, by the news that the band had embarked on a more direct, hard rocking approach for their new album. But I well remember playing this for the first time 41 years ago and feeling distinctly underwhelmed. And I'm sorry to report that I didn't like it much when I listened to it again today, either.

The trouble is, the songwriting isn't quite up to scratch, it's mostly in poor taste and the attitude feels contrived.

I think David put his finger on the appeal of the classic Kiss period, when he mentioned the influence of the early Beatles on the band, a few pages back in this thread. The best Kiss material - Shout it Out Loud, I Want You, I Stole Your Love - has some of the same catchy, visceral excitement as a She Loves You or a Can't Buy Me Love. The tunes on this album don't have any of that, for me.

That said - I quite like the title track. It does rock quite nicely. It was the opener at the gig I saw about a year later. But there's not much else that I like on this record.

I Love it Loud must be the dumbest Gene Simmons song I've ever heard, but War Machine isn't far behind.

These songs just feel so very juvenile. Now granted, some of the band's best-loved songs like Dr Love and Christine Sixteen are incredibly juvenile. But they have a sense of fun that makes it work. These ones don't. I find them charmless. Paul's songs on this record mostly feel hackneyed, as well. Vulgar, even. His big power ballad, I Still Love You actually makes me cringe a bit, it's just so cheesy and overcooked.

Despite appearing on the cover (showbiz, eh?) Ace isn't on the record at all. Vinnie Vincent plays most of the guitar parts I think, but very improbably, Robben Ford, best known for grafting tasteful jazz guitar into the blues, plays on a couple of tunes as well.

Killer is pretty much a retread of Purple's Highway Star.

So - yep, it's louder, it rocks harder, I can't deny there's plenty of energy of a sort but in the end it's a hollow experience.  I'm afraid I find the whole thing a bit low rent and trashy.

[captainkurtz]

Steve Farris, later the guitarist in Mr Mister, plays the solo on the title track, I think..

[Thenop]

Creatures is my favourite Kiss album. So, there I have said it.

It has a big, ominous sound which I like and it was released at the exact right moment for me. Prior to this, there was a half assed comp called "Kiss Killers" with 4 new tracks out of which "Nowhere to Run" if the best song. 4 Stanley songs, no Simmons ones on that one. It served as a pre-cursor to this album, making use of the same producer that would go on to do CotN and Lick It Up.

The dark sound feels like it's to do with the band's situation. Frehley was out indeed, they were auditioning guitar players while recording. A multitude of names have passed by and some of the solos on the album have indeed been played by various guitarists. The solo in the title song is anyone's guess. It is even rumoured it was Eric Carr that had a stab at it. He played bass on I Still Love You as well. The title has an uncredited bass player even.

Even though I hear and see all your points Slim, I still love the album for what it is: a bold attempt to regain some credibility and with Vincent Cusano (Vinnie Vincent) as co writer on some of the tracks, they succeed. Mind you, there are a lot more outside writers here in play. How about Bryan Adams? He wrote Rock and Roll Hell and co wrote War machine, yes, that's right.

The songs itself then, well I have always found the title track to be a modern-day equivalent to Detroit Rock City, the band used it for years a set opener in the sans make up days, and rightfully so. Very energetic, intense playing - great song. The 2 Simmons sung ones on side 1, Saints & Sinner and RnR Hell (covered by Frehley on one of his solo outings as well - seems he could not quite let go of it all) I enjoy very much. S&S has a sort of downtempo gallop thing going on that I like and RnRH was even attempted live but discarded soon after.

The Stanley sung Keep me Comin has a very Zeppelinesque bridge part and was also tried live, maybe once or twice. Danger was written with the same writer as the title track in the same session, and it shows. High energy, fast paced, purpose driven, great song.

The big divider on the album is I Love it Loud. I have never met a non Kissfan that likes it, and I have never met a Kissfan that dislikes it. It is quintessential Simmons and it was the first song he & Vincent wrote together. I recall seeing the video on TV for the first time, I loved it. I have the 7" with the retractable tongue cover, backed with Killer, another song I enjoy, largely written by Vincent.

I Still Love You is a showcase for Stanley, he used it as such on many live occasions and it was one of my favourite songs on the album for years. I have heard it a bit too much I think, but even though it is very much a Kiss song, it is also not. The minor key ballad thing is not something found much in their catalogue.
And then, You Better Watch Out, Cause I'm A War Machine! A Simmons signature song if there ever was one, it's the '80s equivalent to God of Thunder and a pyro showcase live. I really dig the heavy riff the song starts with, it is a thunderous roar that propels the song into gear. Like a freight train, it's unstoppable.

So, in short: a great, heavy dark sounding Kiss album that Stanley would have loved taking off the make up for. But he had to wait a bit..

Worth noting again, post solo album 1978) Kiss: Dynasty, Unmasked, The Elder, Kiss Killers & Creatures, all in 4 years time written, recorded, toured (minus the Elder) and released. Unreal.

[Slim]

The Stanley sung Keep me Comin has a very Zeppelinesque bridge part and was also tried live, maybe once or twice.

I did notice a couple of Zeppelin influences in that one - firstly Paul's vocal is definitely Plant-esque, there's even a little vocal flourish that reminded me of Communication Breakdown. Secondly there's a harmony guitar part borrowed from Ramble On.

[Slim]

Kiss Killers: the new songs (June 1982)

I'm not sure I ever knew that there were four studio tracks on a compilation not available anywhere else but I do remember hearing Partners in Crime on the radio way back when so I must have been dimly aware of it on some level at the time. I didn't buy Kiss Killers though.

Perhaps it's unfair to judge these songs in comparison to the rest of the canon because it seems they only exist because the record company asked for something to mark a difference in tone from The Elder. But I listened to them this morning anyway, and for what it's worth:

I'm A Legend Tonight - this is very ordinary, a bit crass.  The lyrics and the music sound like they were written in about ten minutes.

Down On Your Knees - I don't know how many Kiss tunes there are that refer to people being on their knees, but here's another one! This is a bit better. Nothing to write home about but it's a decent rocker with Who-style open power chords. There's a brief appearance of a twangy guitar riff that reminds me of Kenny Loggins' Footloose. Another one co-written with Bryan Adams.

Nowhere to Run - opens with a nice bit of 12-string guitar and quite a likeable effort.

Partners in Crime - oh hello another "down on your knees" reference. If not for the lightweight production this could almost be a tune off the first couple of albums, in the verse. But we're into more radio-friendly territory for the chorus. I quite like it. I may only have heard it once on the radio more than forty years ago, but I remembered it, that must count for something.

General observations - these are all Paul tunes in essence. His voice sounds a bit strained, perhaps they were recorded off the back of a tour. Bob Kulick plays guitar and I think he's been instructed to play like Ace, although he does use a whammy bar here and there.

I like these, on the whole, a bit more than the Creatures material. They sound a bit less postured, a bit less trying-too-hard-to-be-metal.

But I don't like them a lot.

[Thenop]

Worded well, Nowhere to run was the winner here.

The 'best of' part is interesting in the sense that it's made up from songs missing on Double Platinum, and added on 2 Dynasty songs. And to add to that: there is no song Simmons wrote, except for the co written Rock and Roll all Nite. No wonder he looks like a plucked hen on the cover...

[Slim]

11. Lick It Up (September 1983)

Well, this surprised me. This is another one (the last one actually) that I bought when it was released. I listened to it a couple of times but it didn't stick, even though I saw the Lick It Up tour a few weeks after I bought it.

I'm a bit ambivalent about this one.

The first thing that struck me on listening to it again is that it's really well recorded and produced, with a really thick, beefy guitar sound and full but punchy bass. The second thing is that - although I will qualify this assessment in the following paragraphs - this is actually pretty decent, powerful hard rock.

I remember this record as being the sort of commercial, MTV-friendly shlock that I normally have very little time for. And that's true in essence but it's a bit classier, a bit more potent than I remembered. It has a bit of a NWOBHM feel about it in places. Yes, it has the shouty chorus background vocals and the echoey drums that make you think of scantily glad girls in 1980s music videos but it hits harder than I expected; it has a real high octane sense of intent.

Vinnie plays very well - he contributes some appropriately fret-melting solos that complement the material nicely.

Looking down the track list, I only remembered the title track and A Million To One. But actually the tune I enjoyed most was And On The 8th Day which starts off in very similar fashion to The Who's I Can See For Miles but actually has a bit of the old classic period Kiss fun and charm. Belting tune! If I was invited to compile a Best of Kiss double CD, and I won't be - I'd find a space for that one.

I enjoyed this album quite a bit more than Creatures of the Night but although it did impress me unexpectedly, it's definitely not classic Kiss.

And this is where I tuned out. I never bought, or listened to a Kiss album released after this one - except for Carnival of Souls, which I downloaded in 2020 because someone told me that they'd attempted a grunge album in the 1990s. And I've only listened to two of the songs on that one.

So - the rest of this thread will be a voyage of discovery for me. Of course I've heard Crazy Nights and the cover of God Gave Rock and Roll To You like everyone has. But apart from those two odd Carnival of Souls songs, I can't think of anything else.

[The Picnic Wasp]

As a fairly regularly Sounds reader I remember being so frustrated by not knowing what NWOBHM stood for. I must have missed a few issues when the term was coined. I suppose I must have been at that age when you are cautious about asking questions like this for fear of being mocked by peers. So it was some time before I one way or another unscrambled the mystery. I can still remember reading it and my teenage brain translating it into an odd sounding word, rather than the acronym. I think I was quite an insecure teen pre-beer.

[The Picnic Wasp]

Looks like you might be flying solo from here, Nop.

[Slim]

I'll download Animalize later, and I expect I'll listen to it tomorrow. I definitely want to hear the whole canon, same as I did with the Stones.