This is Ukraine - Do not Panic.

[The Picnic Wasp]

 
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too

That's going back a bit.

Churchill was determined we would use them (and everything else) if Germans ever set foot on our shores. I think that's what has to be considered here. Ukraine is an innocent invaded country. You do that to a nation, you deserve all that you get back and then some.

[David L]

 
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too

That's going back a bit.

Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.

Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that

[Nickslikk2112]

 
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too

That's going back a bit.

Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.

Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that

But the Russians have been bomarding Donbas too.
The EU have been very keen on altering the political situation in Ukraine too to encourage their enlargement.

[David L]

 
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too

That's going back a bit.

Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.

Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that

But the Russians have been bomarding Donbas too.
The EU have been very keen on altering the political situation in Ukraine too to encourage their enlargement.

Yes, when I said US/west, it was the EU I was thinking of.
Apparently Hitler attempted to export Ukrainian soil in box-cars to Germany during WW2. The country is covered in around 15ft of the most fertile soil on earth. Monsanto and others would love to own that and control food security.
Just another element to a complicated situation. The nuance that the BBC et al steer well clear of.

[The Picnic Wasp]

 
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too

That's going back a bit.

Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.

Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that

But the Russians have been bomarding Donbas too.
The EU have been very keen on altering the political situation in Ukraine too to encourage their enlargement.

I think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.

[Slim]

I think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.

It'll never be up to them anyway.

[The Picnic Wasp]

I think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.

It'll never be up to them anyway.

Well, it might be. This world is in a state of flux now and I don't think mankind realises just how bad things are. Ok, I admit I heard my grandfather say similar things back in the 70s, but we are without doubt on the very brink of some extreme changes and issues. I have an acquaintance (used to be a friend) who has a hatred for the US but despite their many, many faults and failings I wonder just where we would be without them.

[David L]

I think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.

It'll never be up to them anyway.

Well, it might be. This world is in a state of flux now and I don't think mankind realises just how bad things are. Ok, I admit I heard my grandfather say similar things back in the 70s, but we are without doubt on the very brink of some extreme changes and issues. I have an acquaintance (used to be a friend) who has a hatred for the US but despite their many, many faults and failings I wonder just where we would be without them.

Less obese.......probably

[David L]

I think the penny may have finally dropped for Zelensky, that he and his people are being used by the US and the EU

[Slim]

If that's true, it's certainly to his people's advantage.

[David L]

If that's true, it's certainly to his people's advantage.

It will be years (if ever) before they are a free nation, even if Russia are defeated

[Basspedalman]

The USA are using Ukraine (and have been for years) as the 'next excuse' for rinsing western taxpayers to support the Military Industrial Complex. The MINSK accord set out guidelines for Peace. The US/CIA destabilized Ukraine and Zolensky is their glove-puppet. The Donbas is the Eurasian version of Palestine. The USA pushed and pushed against previous anti-expansionist agreements so Putin pushed back, first with Crimea and then with the invasion. Putin is obviously a nut job but I don't think he is ultimately responsible for where we are now, it's been a long-game to keep the shareholders of Haliburton / Raytheon / Lockheed-Martin / Carlisle etc. rich. They also need to smash it up some more so they can secure contracts to rebuild it all! Where's Julian Assange when you need him?

[Nickslikk2112]

Where's Julian Assange when you need him?

Hopefully in a cell somewhere with electrodes strapped to his nether regions.

Look at how the US are dragging their feet over F-16s and look at how the EU were encouraging Ukraine to be its own state back in the day.

[David L]

[David L]