Christianity

[Matt2112]

At least within Christianity there's the inbuilt premise of turning the other cheek and in fact even welcoming persecution. This pretty much frees up anyone to say whatever they like about people of Christian faith without fear of retaliation, verbal or physical.

History tells us that position is inversely proportional to how much theocratic power Christianity holds.

See also: pretty much any other major religion.

Sorry Matt, I didn't make it clear that I was talking about the modern day situation, albeit relating to a phrase from the Bible.
You would I imagine, be fairly safe writing a journalistic piece for a national newspaper or well known blogs site, criticising Christianity as strongly as you like, and feel relatively safe. Perhaps if that criticism was directed as forcefully in the direction of another faith, you wouldn't feel as comfortable. I hope that's clearer.

I get what you are saying.  The self-censorship that goes on regarding Islam in particular is effectively a de facto blasphemy law - and this should be firmly resisted.

Isn't it depressingly ironic that those who only very recently wouldn't dare have anyone call the hijab symbolically oppressive are now the first ones to claim solidarity with those women who have been burning them in Iran?

[The Picnic Wasp]

I showed up here to read about Slim's conversion after all these years. Can someone point me to where it is?

I think it's Page 59 of the What Made You Grumpy Today thread? He's getting a new bathroom.😂

[Slim]

Read this comment this morning in a Facebook group from a Christian:

If God made the universe, then God made all of the universe and it doesn't matter if Earth and Humans are in a particular place, it only matters that they are present in Creation. You are wrong when you say that "if the Earth is just one of billions of planets revolving around billions of stars in billions of galaxies, then the ideas of God, creation, and a specific purpose for Earth and human existence become highly implausible." Your belief and faith must be fragile indeed if something like that is such a challenge to them.

Quite glad to see that in a way because it helped me to crystallise a thought I've had for a long time, about how nonsensical the old religions are in the face of science. I replied:

Think of it this way. The Bible, Christianity and the other ancient religions are extremely Earth-centric. In the story that Christians imagine, the "Son of God" himself comes to Earth, to save humanity. God himself is troubled by the sexual morals of the dominant species on this planet, so much so that He has cruel and unusual punishments prepared for the naughtier among us. That makes a bit of sense in an uneducated, ignorant pre-scientific world where his "creation" is the Earth, and the stars are just a bit of decoration.

But when you consider the reality, that Earth is as a speck of dust in a galaxy teeming with billions of stars and planets, itself a galaxy in a universe teeming with billions of similar galaxies, it looks nonsensical. Comical, even. Or perhaps the Christians imagine that their "God" had a few billion other sons and daughters, each dispatched to go and save an intelligent species on billions of other planets?

[The Picnic Wasp]

This type of thinking occupies my mind at some point most days. It could be argued that it is perhaps unhealthy to allow the mind to drift in this direction. I don't know. I was fortunate to receive a good education, at a strict, private Catholic school. I suppose I would scrape into the low end of the top quarter of the ability level of my year. Even at a tender teen age I was a bit in awe of the more talented individuals. There were brilliant minds on display every day and it was easy to pick up on the masters clearly getting a buzz out of teaching them. Quite a few went on to become the cream of their chosen career choices. Top surgeons, professors, guys at the very top of the legal profession in Europe and beyond. Surprisingly, or perhaps I shouldn't state this, many of them were men of deep faith. Why this gives me comfort is probably an indication of some needy trait in my make up but I do take some solace from it. My tangled mind with its internal struggle with belief, Christianity in particular, does usually end with me taking the path leading to the strong possibility of a designer. It makes more sense to me than another kind of random, pseudo miraculous occurrence. The unfathomable scale of our, or perhaps several universes is probably just a distraction from a definitive purpose for Earth's existence. Who knows? No one.

[Slim]

Who knows? No one.

You say that no-one knows, but really that's true only in the strictest, most formal sense. Certainly if someone were to say to me "God's not real", my answer would be "I know". While it may not be provable, I do accept the truth of God's non-existence completely.

[The Picnic Wasp]

Who knows? No one.

You say that no-one knows, but really that's true only in the strictest, most formal sense. Certainly if someone were to say to me "God's not real", my answer would be "I know". While it may not be provable, I do accept the truth of God's non-existence completely.

Entirely understandable that you should have complete faith in your own method of logic. I tend to float towards what we yet do not know, be it dark matter, other physical mysteries, or the supernatural.

[Slim]

It's not faith. And none of the religions or their deities have much in common with dark matter, which is a phenomenon implied by observation. Odin, Thor, God, Apollo, Zeus and the rest are implied by nothing.

[The Picnic Wasp]

Conversely, I am quite superstitious. This is forbidden by the faith I follow and is probably more of a result of life experiences than any belief that it is anything other than hopeful fear cancelling nonsense. I avoided the recent thread on this subject as I knew I'd likely be ridiculed about it and rightly so. But I view the possibility of God entirely differently. I think there's a whole load of evidence in the scriptures, a lot of which can't very easily be dismissed as false.

[Slim]

Religious faith is categorically a superstition, so it's not surprising that its adherents will be inclined to other beliefs in the same broad category. I'd be interested to know what you consider to be evidence from the scriptures? The scriptures aren't really a very credible source in the first place, they've been written and translated many times and they're mostly stories people have made up.

[The Picnic Wasp]

Ah well, I'll just need to console myself with the knowledge that if it's good enough for Boris, it's good enough for me.

[David L]

Ah well, I'll just need to console myself with the knowledge that if it's good enough for Boris, it's good enough for me.

[Slim]

Ah well, I'll just need to console myself with the knowledge that if it's good enough for Boris, it's good enough for me.

Never suggested he was right about everything.

[Slim]

Nice dissection of tactics used by the delusional to defend an unsupportable worldview.

[The Picnic Wasp]

Nice dissection of tactics used by the delusional to defend an unsupportable worldview.

I always find these debates fascinating, but not when opposing sides are clearly at different intellectual levels. I was pleased that the good doctor dealt with the waffling cleric so politely as it was shooting fish in a barrel stuff. I rightly or wrongly don't pay much heed to the Old Testament. It's clearly of its times and a gathering of tales and symbolism. I always find Richard Dawkins interesting too. He's a superb scientist and I could listen to him all day, but in a debate situation I'd rather see him up against a Stephen Meyer type, from a fairness point of view. Of all the great debaters on the topic I admired Christopher Hitchens the most. He could slice through all that's wrong with religion in seconds but on rare occasions allow just enough room for faith to still be a possibility for those to make a choice. I hated those banners appearing though. Reminded me of those slogans stupid people scrawl on placards made from an old Amazon box. Not even clever enough to be considered propaganda. Are we still allowed to mention that Dr F is very pleasing to watch? Please feel free to redact as necessary. Or perhaps she plays guitar and will appear again in future.

[Slim]

Are we still allowed to mention that Dr F is very pleasing to watch? Please feel free to redact as necessary. Or perhaps she plays guitar and will appear again in future.

There's an interesting discussion to be had there about objectification. Actually I was thinking of starting a University Challenge Totty of the Week thread, but neither Durham nor Open put up a particularly strong candidate this week.

Maybe we can have a discussion about it in NSFW, I do think it's interesting. But briefly - some people of either sex are always going to be eye candy for the opposite sex, or in some cases the same sex. As long as they aren't disrespected for it, I don't personally have a problem with it.