I have the impression that most people are done with the virus now, but a more important question is whether it's done with us - and unfortunately it isn't. There's been a bit of an uptick in cases and patients admitted to hospital in the last week or two, and both are heading in the wrong direction.
Couldn't quite believe it when it came up in my Facebook memories this morning, but I underwent my first jab a year ago today. I remember the drive in to Derby (and, to be honest, the sense of dread - I hate needles) like it was a couple of months ago.
Have a feeling I'll be undergoing a fourth in the autumn. We'll see.
But as always - do not panic!
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
(http://truth.justdied.com/images/220312covid.png)
I'm still wearing a mask but appeared in the minority today in Tesco.
Quote from: Slim on March 12, 2022, 11:08:53 PMI have the impression that most people are done with the virus now, but a more important question is whether it's done with us - and unfortunately it isn't.
Caught it in March 2020. Been done with it since then tbh
Good that despite disliking needles, you still had the jab, slim.
I'm still wearing a mask too, as much out of courtesy for others, really. I have noticed a massive drop in others wearing them...not sure if that's the 'Ukraine effect'...something else for people to be anxious about.
My Wife and 2 children both tested positive at separate times in Jan and Feb, but I got lucky. Not sure if it was lucky as it feels a matter of time. My main concern is being able to care for Mum, as I'm pretty much on my own there, and she needs visiting a couple of times a day.
I dislike needles and injections intensely too, but I gritted my teeth and got through three of them.
I will admit that I have stopped wearing my mask in Tesco, but it's not too busy on a Friday evening when I go and I stay a good ten feet away from anybody - apart from a the checkout, but they are still screened. I disinfect the trolley handle and sanitise my hands. I'm also the only one still sanitising my hands at work.
I'd still be wearing a mask if my dad were still with us.
Don't have an issue with needles, as a child they used to hurt at the doctors and the dentist but now you just don't feel them.
Quote from: Nick on March 12, 2022, 11:40:31 PMI'm still wearing a mask but appeared in the minority today in Tesco.
In Wales you still have to wear a mask on shops.
Quote from: David L on March 12, 2022, 11:51:03 PMQuote from: Slim on March 12, 2022, 11:08:53 PMI have the impression that most people are done with the virus now, but a more important question is whether it's done with us - and unfortunately it isn't.
Caught it in March 2020. Been done with it since then tbh
You can catch it again and it can be worse second time around.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 13, 2022, 02:39:10 PMQuote from: David L on March 12, 2022, 11:51:03 PMQuote from: Slim on March 12, 2022, 11:08:53 PMI have the impression that most people are done with the virus now, but a more important question is whether it's done with us - and unfortunately it isn't.
Caught it in March 2020. Been done with it since then tbh
You can catch it again and it can be worse second time around.
Unlikely now the dominant variant is mild. It's now been classed as less lethal than flu. I've never spent any time worrying about dying of flu.
Never bothered with needles so the vaccines were fine... managed to test positive last June 10 wife's birthday of all days....bit of a runny nose lost my taste and smell for about a week but otherwise fine.. Weather was good so pretty much stayed out the way sitting in the back garden in the sunshine....like I said to most folks at the time I've had colds that were a lot worse than this.... tested negative a week later
Fish junior tested positive last week but he has a place of his now so isolating not a problem.... Cold like symptoms sore throat/ headache/ loss of appetite but I think he's now on the mend...
Numbers up here in Scotland on the ruse again.. hospitals numbers end of Jan were about 800 now over 1600..numbers in ICU tho are still very low
Still wearing masks to shops / public transport but noticed at the theatre last Friday many people seem to have stopped wearing masks....
I'll stick with them for now methinks
Quote from: David L on March 13, 2022, 02:53:09 PMUnlikely now the dominant variant is mild. It's now been classed as less lethal than flu. I've never spent any time worrying about dying of flu.
I'm not worried about dying of COVID, I think it's unlikely in my case since I'm slim, fit and have no underlying medical conditions that I'm aware of. It's other people we have to think about. Also - I think it's more contagious than flu, and I suspect it's only less lethal because so many people have been double and triple-jabbed.
Quote from: Slim on March 13, 2022, 09:53:25 PMQuote from: David L on March 13, 2022, 02:53:09 PMUnlikely now the dominant variant is mild. It's now been classed as less lethal than flu. I've never spent any time worrying about dying of flu.
Also - I think it's more contagious than flu, and I suspect it's only less lethal because so many people have been double and triple-jabbed.
No, that's not correct. We know it's considerably less lethal because Omicron is a less pathogenic variant. Witness the reduced fatalities in countries with low vaccination rates. The vaccines may play a part but difficult to assess how much of a part due to the weakening virus. It is a lot more contagious than flu, and that has helped people to quickly develop natural immunity (important when vaccine-induced immunity is short-lived)
You won't have any fear of needles by the time this is over ;D
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/598026-pfizer-ceo-says-a-fourth-booster-shot-is-necessary
Quote from: David L on March 13, 2022, 10:12:59 PMNo, that's not correct. We know it's considerably less lethal because Omicron is a less pathogenic variant. Witness the reduced fatalities in countries with low vaccination rates. The vaccines may play a part but difficult to assess how much of a part due to the weakening virus. It is a lot more contagious than flu, and that has helped people to quickly develop natural immunity (important when vaccine-induced immunity is short-lived)
I don't think we know that it's inherently less lethal, a study in Japan (news item from this month) suggests that it's more lethal than flu:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/03/03/national/omicron-deadlier-flu/
Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity (I've heard Chris Smith make this point several times)
https://www.devon.gov.uk/news/study-shows-vaccine-immunity-is-stronger-than-natural-immunity/
But most importantly the critical point about the degree that Omicron is contagious must surely be the risk it poses that very large numbers of people will be infected. We're still living in dangerous times I feel and although the pandemic has been overshadowed by other events recently, I suspect it will make its presence felt again in a few months.
Quote from: Slim on March 14, 2022, 11:20:36 AMQuote from: David L on March 13, 2022, 10:12:59 PMNo, that's not correct. We know it's considerably less lethal because Omicron is a less pathogenic variant. Witness the reduced fatalities in countries with low vaccination rates. The vaccines may play a part but difficult to assess how much of a part due to the weakening virus. It is a lot more contagious than flu, and that has helped people to quickly develop natural immunity (important when vaccine-induced immunity is short-lived)
I don't think we know that it's inherently less lethal, a study in Japan (news item from this month) suggests that it's more lethal than flu:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/03/03/national/omicron-deadlier-flu/
Vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity (I've heard Chris Smith make this point several times)
https://www.devon.gov.uk/news/study-shows-vaccine-immunity-is-stronger-than-natural-immunity/
But most importantly the critical point about the degree that Omicron is contagious must surely be the risk it poses that very large numbers of people will be infected. We're still living in dangerous times I feel and although the pandemic has been overshadowed by other events recently, I suspect it will make its presence felt again in a few months.
https://news.yahoo.com/in-england-covid-is-now-less-deadly-than-the-flu-but-what-about-in-the-us-100016672.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10598195/Covid-deadly-flu-scientists-say.html
https://gulfnews.com/special-reports/covid-19-omicron-now-less-deadly-than-flu-1.1647011926766
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/968553
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00676-9/fulltext
The link you quoted re: immunity explains the methodology in determination:
Antibody testing was conducted on those who had tested positive for Covid 19 I can't see whether it says if that initial positive test came from LFT or PCR. We know that PCR is not a reliable diagnostic tool for detecting illness due to the amount of cycles used in testing (which can detect fragments of virus DNA due to 'hyper-sensitivity)'. Many people testing positive cannot be described as suffering from Covid 19. Likely that these people's immune systems would not have produced any significant antibody response... hence no symptoms.
I would guess that vaccination always results in antibodies being produced.
The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) says:
"PCR detection of viruses is helpful so long as its accuracy can be understood: it offers the capacity to detect RNA in minute quantities, but whether that RNA represents infectious virus may not be clear."
OK, so to take the first few of those links: the first attributes this partly to ""high levels of immunity [in England]", which of course is largely due to the vaccine rollout and especially the booster campaign.
The second makes exactly the same qualification, referring to "sky-high immunity rates".
The third is less equivocal (and less grammatical): "Vaccines, alongside the high infectiousness of Omicron means COVID is now less deadly than flu, according to a number of reports."
All of which was essentially my point, ie Omicron is not necessarily inherently less lethal than flu. The vaccine rollout has shielded us from its worst excesses.
Not sure that your later point is relevant - whether the individual currently has COVID-19 or has merely had it, the effect with respect to immunity is ultimately the same.
The first point is that although you suspect that now covid is "only less lethal because so many people have been double and triple-jabbed", that's not the case. There are other acknowledged reasons for it causing fewer deaths.
The later point explores the methodology behind the research you quoted to determine that vaccine-acquired immunity is more effective than naturally-acquired immunity (https://www.devon.gov.uk/news/study-shows-vaccine-immunity-is-stronger-than-natural-immunity/)
I could be wrong but reading the piece below leads me to think the limitations of the PCR test makes the conclusion, from this study at least, far from definitive
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/pcr-positives-what-do-they-mean/
Quote from: David L on March 14, 2022, 04:10:30 PMThe first point is that although you suspect that now covid is "only less lethal because so many people have been double and triple-jabbed", that's not the case. There are other acknowledged reasons for it causing fewer deaths.
That's not quite logical; it may be inherently milder than Delta but we can't say that it is inherently less lethal than flu, which is the proposition I addressed.
Quote from: Slim on March 14, 2022, 06:40:07 PMQuote from: David L on March 14, 2022, 04:10:30 PMThe first point is that although you suspect that now covid is "only less lethal because so many people have been double and triple-jabbed", that's not the case. There are other acknowledged reasons for it causing fewer deaths.
That's not quite logical; it may be inherently milder than Delta but we can't say that it is inherently less lethal than flu, which is the proposition I addressed.
No. You made a statement and I said it was incorrect. Anyway:
https://www.news24.com/health24/medical/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-now-less-deadly-than-flu-in-the-uk-analysis-shows-20220314
Might be a different story in other countries but seems to be the case in England.
Quote from: David L on March 14, 2022, 07:17:55 PMNo. You made a statement and I said it was incorrect.
Yes, exactly. But it probably wasn't incorrect.
Quotehttps://www.news24.com/health24/medical/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-now-less-deadly-than-flu-in-the-uk-analysis-shows-20220314
Might be a different story in other countries but seems to be the case in England.
.. and in the second paragraph
This is due to high immunity levels, mostly obtained through vaccination, as well as Omicron's 'milder' nature.
Oh no not again.
Please God can we ban 3 things from ranting here: Brexit, Covid & Boris
I understand your aversion very well but so far we've avoided making it personal and stuck to the arguments. I'm sure we can continue in that vein.
Just thinking aloud here really but back in 2003, there was a special opt-in section on T-N-M-S, created because arguments about the Iraq war had become so bitter and heated that it was thought better to insulate the general membership from them. We could do that again here if necessary.
That turned out mostly being me versus two or three people who were all in favour of the war and it was pretty unpleasant.
BTW back on topic, happy to see that Chris Smith is on 5 Live after midnight again, in a shortened version of his 'Midnight Medic' slot.
CV19 is every where at the moment, a member of my squash team just went down with it my mum has it, and I know so many more people with it.
Seems to be a pretty substantial bounceback of cases after they were tumbling for a while. Of course, the real focus is on serious outcomes, and it looks very much like we're in a much better position on that score.
Got a message today from the host of a function I was at last weekend - apparently 12 positive cases amongst the attendees have been declared since.
I have absolutely no symptoms at the moment. As far as I'm aware I've somehow dodged Covid, even including when I spent long hours during a week of daily visits to a Covid isolation room sitting by my mum's bedside when she was seriously ill last year (albeit with Covid, as opposed to from it).
There's still little room for complacency.
Step daughter was at a wedding last weekend and 16 people have gone down with covid. Nephew was at a party and one guy decided to go even though he had test positive and most people now have covid that went to the party.
An immunologist mentioned on 5 Live Drive last night that the 'BA2' variant of Omicron is becoming more dominant. It's a bit more transmissible still than the bog standard Omicron we know and love. But not more severe, as far as is known.
https://www.who.int/news/item/22-02-2022-statement-on-omicron-sublineage-ba.2
BA2 is now the dominant one in Scotland with numbers going sky high again.. one of the regular virus people reckons we'll hit the peak in a couple of weeks and it may slowly burn itselfs out as there will a lot less people for it to infect.
I did hear that the BA2 peak is very "sharp", ie it rises rapidly but falls away just as quickly.
Well, we had managed to avoid COVID in this household, but just as the boy has started his first paying job - in his bloody 24th year - he's come down with COVID >:(
Mrs S and my good self are free from it.
Cases (by date reported), updated yesterday at https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases
(http://truth.justdied.com/images/220319cases.png)
Hospitalisations are up as well, but that's not reflected in the number of people being ventilated, which has increased only very slightly.
Heard this morning that three million people in the UK are currently infected, more than at any time during the pandemic.
umm do I have Covid or a cold? 3 negative test all negative, feels like I have a heavy cold....ummmm
Yes I have CV19. Tested positive came up straight away on test. Felt rough yesterday.
All the best, fella..
Arse. Finally come down with COVID. I blame the boy >:(
Funny how Mrs S has never come down with it, yet she works on a School reception and is a First Aider there.
Also funny that at the start of the pandemic I stopped being able to taste Instant Coffee or minty toothpaste yet I've been able to the last couple of days.
I still have it too, 4th day, sore throat from hell but went for a walk with the dogs today and I did manage some sleep last night.
My throat's OK, I just feel like I've been poleaxed. Bit of a headache, bit of a cough. Just hope I sleep tonight as spent all last night in a sweat.
To say I've had three jabs and Omicron's supposed to be milder I feel like shit. But then I've always suffered badly from the Common Cold.
Paracetamol is your friend, you have the same symptoms as me. Ended up reading most of the night because trying to sleep failed. But I found if I took the Paracetamol it helped with the fever.
Day time TV needs turning off....all of its rubbish.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 22, 2022, 12:25:24 PMParacetamol is your friend, you have the same symptoms as me. Ended up reading most of the night because trying to sleep failed. But I found if I took the Paracetamol it helped with the fever.
Mrs S has come back from work with a couple of packs of Paracetamol.
QuoteDay time TV needs turning off....all of its rubbish.
You obviously don't watch Four in a Bed!
Hope you both recover completely in a couple of days.
Just saying to a work colleague I have never tested positive (although I am likely to have had it and was asymptomatic as all my household got it early on), then I get a ping 2 mins later on my phone to say I have been in close contact with a zombie, let's see how it pans out.
Used local trains in London for three days in a row from Saturday to yesterday. Trains sometimes near-full. Only a few people wearing face coverings.
But to be honest I'd rather get it now before the booster jab in December wears off; it must already be waning in effectiveness.
Wife has tested positive for Covid. Not surprising since just everyone she works with has had it in the last few weeks. So far I have tested negative.
Oh no, I hope it will be ok for you all. My wife and I stopped sharing the bed and stayed in other rooms because we did not want her to get it. That was under wife's sisters orders who is a Dr, bit of a pain but we did it.
I quite enjoyed sleeping in the spare room for a week. Bit like being on holiday.
The Truth Is Coming Out....(??)
https://youtu.be/sqD_JYAs7pU
Mrs S has now got COVID. Even though I made her go sleep on the dog shelf downstairs. Although she could have picked it up from a Governor's meeting she was clerking at in the week.
....and i'm still testing positive 7th day. Fell fine now.
A very sobering paper recently published (16/03/22) in the BMJ entitled "The illusion of evidence based medicine". Probably a 5 minute read
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o702
Or a video presentation of the same by truth-seeker, Dr. John Campbell which adds some proof of the authors assertions:
https://youtu.be/vZlZIXHT0yA
"we will follow the science" ;D ;D ;D
(Of course it's an opinion piece but probably accurate enough to induce some mild depression)
Had a bit of a phlegmy throat and runny nose recently but have felt generally okay; LFT negative.
In the meantime, hopefully I qualify on my usual technicality for the 4th jab "VIP pre-sale". ;)
Boris lied to parliament then - didn't see that coming ;D ;D ;)
No, Boris Johnson did not lie to Parliament.
I have no doubt at all that he was given assurances that no rules had been broken, which is what he said to Parliament. Some elements of the Civil Service working at Downing Street, not under his own supervision, appear to have broken some of the rules. And that's partially, I suspect, why there was a clearout a couple of months ago.
Quote from: Slim on March 30, 2022, 08:21:56 AMNo, Boris Johnson did not lie to Parliament.
I have no doubt at all that he was given assurances that no rules had been broken, which is what he said to Parliament. Some elements of the Civil Service working at Downing Street, not under his own supervision, appear to have broken some of the rules. And that's partially, I suspect, why there was a clearout a couple of months ago.
A statement to the house to clarify that fact is required, I would suggest
Quote from: David L on March 30, 2022, 07:00:18 AMBoris lied to parliament then - didn't see that coming ;D ;D ;)
yep "Boris" lied to parliament.
No, the Prime Minister has not lied to Parliament.
I believe that the PM will be only too pleased to provide some clarification over this once the investigation has concluded as he's already stated, and I'm very much looking forward to that.
In the meantime, the salient point is that to the very best of my knowledge, no-one in the government or the Conservative Party has broken any of the lockdown laws or restrictions. It does look like elements of the civil service have done this and they will answer for it I'm sure, if they haven't already.
Quote from: Slim on March 30, 2022, 10:52:24 AMNo, the Prime Minister has not lied to Parliament.
I believe that the PM will be only too pleased to provide some clarification over this once the investigation has concluded as he's already stated, and I'm very much looking forward to that.
In the meantime, the salient point is that to the very best of my knowledge, no-one in the government or the Conservative Party has broken any of the lockdown laws or restrictions. It does look like elements of the civil service have done this and they will answer for it I'm sure, if they haven't already.
What proof would you require to show he lied to parliament? and if that proof is shown will you change your position?
If it could be proved that he lied to Parliament over the "Partygate" affair, then of course my position would change. At the moment there isn't any evidence of this, let alone proof.
Here's an example of an actual lie; Paul Brand deliberately misleading his Twitter followers:
(http://truth.justdied.com/images/brandlie.png)
Paul would not be able to mention one member of the government who has received a fine, and nor can I. It's most likely that those who have received them so far are civil servants.
I've chosen this example because it illustrates the crux of the problem: the media and opposition have spun a story about "Number 10" to give people the impression that the government and the PM are at fault, which amounts to a massive lie. Here though Paul has just typed a straight-out lie.
It's quite possible actually that Paul's husband Joe Cuddeford, who works for the Cabinet Office and presumably hates the Tories as much as he does, has received a fixed penalty over this ridiculous affair.
The problem is slim he said in parliament to parliament all covid rules were abided by then he had to apologise to parliament because he went to a party at no. 10. So he said in is own words he went to party at no.10.
So he broke the law and misled parliament. Its in his own words.
I'm leaving it there now. My point has been made and so has yours I do not want to row with you. 8)
OK. I don't agree with your interpretation there because it's a matter of fact that what he said in Parliament was "I have been assured that.." none of the rules had been broken.
Also I think you'd be hard pushed to find a quote in which he says that he went to a party at Number 10. What I think happened is that he went into the garden at Number 10, and people who were already gathered for work were having a meeting with alcohol there.
My daughter is a nurse and says her hospital is rammed to the gills with covid at the moment, 600 staff off over two hospitals.
Quote from: Nick on March 30, 2022, 08:39:11 PMMy daughter is a nurse and says her hospital is rammed to the gills with covid at the moment, 600 staff off over two hospitals.
Don't worry....we've got the vaccine now ;D ;)
Quote from: Nick on March 30, 2022, 08:39:11 PMMy daughter is a nurse and says her hospital is rammed to the gills with covid at the moment, 600 staff off over two hospitals.
So, 2% of the Admin staff then...
Also, is it rammed to the gills with people in there for something else who just happen to have COVID?
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on March 30, 2022, 09:53:39 PMQuote from: Nick on March 30, 2022, 08:39:11 PMMy daughter is a nurse and says her hospital is rammed to the gills with covid at the moment, 600 staff off over two hospitals.
So, 2% of the Admin staff then...
;D
Africa doesn't need a vaccine (sorry Bill)
https://youtu.be/ilFUz6BVoS8
Tentative indications that the eye-popping case numbers of the BA2 wave may have peaked.
Hope so, as they seem directly proportionate to the amount of sanctimonious finger-wagging by the likes of "Independent Sage". ::)
Sajid Javid has launched a campaign to increase levels of vitamin D as he acknowledges that black and asian people living in the UK have much lower levels than the fair-skinned population (who are also deficient).
What a shame this was not acknowledged at the beginning of the pandemic, lives would have been saved, undoubtedly. Of course, there was no money in it
https://news.sky.com/story/vitamin-d-deficiency-health-secretary-launches-review-to-increase-intake-of-vital-nutrient-12580591
Quote from: David L on April 06, 2022, 12:40:49 AMSajid Javid has launched a campaign to increase levels of vitamin D as he acknowledges that black and asian people living in the UK have much lower levels than the fair-skinned population (who are also deficient).
What a shame this was not acknowledged at the beginning of the pandemic, lives would have been saved, undoubtedly. Of course, there was no money in it
https://news.sky.com/story/vitamin-d-deficiency-health-secretary-launches-review-to-increase-intake-of-vital-nutrient-12580591
vitamin d deficiency can cause osteoporosis which can lead to broken bones. Apparently 3 million people in the UK have this disease. It can really affect older people, this is why when an older person falls they can easily break bones that do not heal quickly.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on April 06, 2022, 10:33:42 PMQuote from: David L on April 06, 2022, 12:40:49 AMSajid Javid has launched a campaign to increase levels of vitamin D as he acknowledges that black and asian people living in the UK have much lower levels than the fair-skinned population (who are also deficient).
What a shame this was not acknowledged at the beginning of the pandemic, lives would have been saved, undoubtedly. Of course, there was no money in it
https://news.sky.com/story/vitamin-d-deficiency-health-secretary-launches-review-to-increase-intake-of-vital-nutrient-12580591
vitamin d deficiency can cause osteoporosis which can lead to broken bones. Apparently 3 million people in the UK have this disease. It can really affect older people, this is why when an older person falls they can easily break bones that do not heal quickly.
Yes, I knew all that but to be vitamin D deficient also reduces transmissibility and serious outcomes when it comes to Covid-19 and that was known early in the pandemic
Jonathan Van-Tam has been forced to miss the ceremony for his knighthood after falling ill with....Covid-19. Hmmm, I'd have thought he'd been vaccinated............four times, I'd wager ;D
Quote from: David L on May 19, 2022, 02:03:27 PMJonathan Van-Tam has been forced to miss the ceremony for his knighthood after falling ill with....Covid-19. Hmmm, I'd have thought he'd been vaccinated............four times, I'd wager ;D
Yes, so likely preventing symptoms much more serious.
In other news, there's still no cure for seasonal flu, either. :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 19, 2022, 08:25:28 PMQuote from: David L on May 19, 2022, 02:03:27 PMJonathan Van-Tam has been forced to miss the ceremony for his knighthood after falling ill with....Covid-19. Hmmm, I'd have thought he'd been vaccinated............four times, I'd wager ;D
In other news, there's still no cure for seasonal flu, either. :)
Yes, they really should be able to monetise that one more.....I'd have thought. One jab a year....pah!
Get on it Tedros, Gates wants action! ;)
Apparently the Covid alert level was downgraded this week; remember when Boris found cause to solemnly update us all on its status during an unmissable live 5pm broadcast?
It barely makes online news outlet sidebars now.
Good.
Good news on the vaccine front - research and development has continued unabated, and Moderna have a vaccine that's reportedly five times better at boosting antibodies:
https://www.gbnews.uk/news/modernas-new-covid-vaccine-five-times-better-than-original-scientists-say/313915
Needless to say the massed ranks of the amateur immunologists in the GBNEWS Twitter comments have been quick to dismiss this. But in real life it may well help to prevent lockdowns in the coming years.
Quote from: Slim on June 09, 2022, 04:36:02 PMGood news on the vaccine front - research and development has continued unabated, and Moderna have a vaccine that's reportedly five times better at boosting antibodies:
https://www.gbnews.uk/news/modernas-new-covid-vaccine-five-times-better-than-original-scientists-say/313915
Needless to say the massed ranks of the amateur immunologists in the GBNEWS Twitter comments have been quick to dismiss this. But in real life it may well help to prevent lockdowns in the coming years.
(Unsurprisingly)I'm with the amateur immunologists. No longer required, Omicron was nature's vaccine
Quote(Unsurprisingly)I'm with the amateur immunologists. No longer required, Omicron was nature's vaccine
Is it not more prudent to have the vaccine, that is very likely to significantly mitigate symptoms in the event of catching Covid, than taking your chances with Covid and being much more exposed to any potential bad outcomes?
Remember the chance of serious adverse effects as a direct result of taking the vaccine is literally in the region of 0.001%.
Quote from: Matt2112 on June 09, 2022, 10:43:29 PMQuote(Unsurprisingly)I'm with the amateur immunologists. No longer required, Omicron was nature's vaccine
Is it not more prudent to have the vaccine, that is very likely to significantly mitigate symptoms in the event of catching Covid, than taking your chances with Covid and being much more exposed to any potential bad outcomes?
Nope, not for me. I don't trust the manufacturers, money is their prime motivation. For most people, their own immune system is more than adequate.
But for a substantial minority, it isn't. And as we grow older, we're more likely to be in the minority.
Quote from: Slim on June 09, 2022, 11:43:30 PMBut for a substantial minority, it isn't. And as we grow older, we're more likely to be in the minority.
And when I'm older and more vulnerable, I will probably be in the queue, confident that adequate time has passed for me to have made a more informed decision on the safety of the jab I'm about to receive.
Quote from: David L on June 09, 2022, 11:52:39 PMQuote from: Slim on June 09, 2022, 11:43:30 PMBut for a substantial minority, it isn't. And as we grow older, we're more likely to be in the minority.
And when I'm older and more vulnerable, I will probably be in the queue, confident that adequate time has passed for me to have made a more informed decision on the safety of the jab I'm about to receive.
How low does the risk have to get? 0.000000000000001%?
The risk of moderate to severe Covid symptoms manifesting themselves is far greater than any from any vaccine in circulation.
My seasonal flu jab last winter gave me far worse symptoms than any of my three Covid jabs - the plural of anecdote is not data, sure, but I don't believe I'm untypical.
Yes, that's the important point. The vaccines are the safer option. Less anti-social, as well.
Quote from: Matt2112 on June 10, 2022, 12:11:19 PMQuote from: David L on June 09, 2022, 11:52:39 PMQuote from: Slim on June 09, 2022, 11:43:30 PMBut for a substantial minority, it isn't. And as we grow older, we're more likely to be in the minority.
And when I'm older and more vulnerable, I will probably be in the queue, confident that adequate time has passed for me to have made a more informed decision on the safety of the jab I'm about to receive.
How low does the risk have to get? 0.000000000000001%?
The risk of moderate to severe Covid symptoms manifesting themselves is far greater than any from any vaccine in circulation.
My seasonal flu jab last winter gave me far worse symptoms than any of my three Covid jabs - the plural of anecdote is not data, sure, but I don't believe I'm untypical.
If you're happy, I'm happy. Wouldn't dream of preventing you from exercising your freedom of choice
Quote from: Slim on June 10, 2022, 12:14:58 PMYes, that's the important point. The vaccines are the safer option.
For me? You don't know that
Quote from: David L on June 10, 2022, 12:58:29 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on June 10, 2022, 12:11:19 PMQuote from: David L on June 09, 2022, 11:52:39 PMQuote from: Slim on June 09, 2022, 11:43:30 PMBut for a substantial minority, it isn't. And as we grow older, we're more likely to be in the minority.
And when I'm older and more vulnerable, I will probably be in the queue, confident that adequate time has passed for me to have made a more informed decision on the safety of the jab I'm about to receive.
How low does the risk have to get? 0.000000000000001%?
The risk of moderate to severe Covid symptoms manifesting themselves is far greater than any from any vaccine in circulation.
My seasonal flu jab last winter gave me far worse symptoms than any of my three Covid jabs - the plural of anecdote is not data, sure, but I don't believe I'm untypical.
If you're happy, I'm happy. Wouldn't dream of preventing you from exercising your freedom of choice
Likewise - I just find the rationale not to have the vaccine bizarre in principle, medical reasons notwithstanding of course.
Quote from: Slim on June 10, 2022, 12:14:58 PMLess anti-social, as well.
Yes, thinking about it, we should all do our bit. Most pension funds are heavily invested in pharma stocks
I have just had Covid for the first time... a sort throat for a day and the sniffles for three days. Timing was bad enough to cancel a holiday in Portugal mind..... I always liked the videos put up by Dr John Campbell. He was always banging on about Omicron being the best cure-all. I am personally glad I have finally had it. Feels like a belt and braces although there is no guarantee I can't get it again!!
Quote from: David L on June 10, 2022, 01:01:13 PMQuote from: Slim on June 10, 2022, 12:14:58 PMYes, that's the important point. The vaccines are the safer option.
For me? You don't know that
The respective probabilities are such that it's safer.
Quote from: Slim on June 10, 2022, 06:53:21 PMQuote from: David L on June 10, 2022, 01:01:13 PMQuote from: Slim on June 10, 2022, 12:14:58 PMYes, that's the important point. The vaccines are the safer option.
For me? You don't know that
The respective probabilities are such that it's safer.
Yes, I can see then that you agree with me
That's encouraging.
Booster jabs now being offered for the 50+ in the Autumn. I will get mine as soon as I can, these new variants are beginning to concern me again, very transmissible and won't be long before there is another killer strain, added to that the NHS are struggling I may even go back to mask wearing. I think I have noted more shoppers in my Tesco with masks.
Quote from: Nick on July 15, 2022, 06:19:46 PMand won't be long before there is another killer strain
Really, what makes you say that?
Quote from: Nick on July 15, 2022, 07:30:00 PMQuote from: David L on July 15, 2022, 06:27:02 PMQuote from: Nick on July 15, 2022, 06:19:46 PMand won't be long before there is another killer strain
Really, what makes you say that?
Darwin
Hmmm, not sure but I think that would be bucking the trend for a virus - unless they are still banging it out from the Wuhan lab, of course 😀
Case numbers are pretty eye-popping - numbers of serious outcomes not so much. Chiefly because of vaccines on the latter score.
Still, the likes of Incandescent Sage on the former score will be sounding their loud false alarms to their obediently hypochondriac acolytes on Twatter; the same mob who excoriate "Facebook virologists" while worshipping the...erm, mathematician Christina Pagel.
I feel sorry for those now scared out of their wits, couldn't live life like that.
2 weeks after getting a negative test, I'm left with a nagging chest infection that just won't go away, after 5 days of amoxicillin.
Wife has an eye infection after having caught covid from me (not related, obviously)
Daughter taken to hospital today as she was exhibiting the same behaviour as when she had a fit back in 2019 - she has hydrocephalus, so we have to be careful.
Hope your daughter's OK Hassan.
I got an eye infection after I had COVID.
Hope everyone recovers quickly Hassan, trying times.
Hope things get better for you all, Hass.
It just goes to show that Covid hasn't gone away by any means - in fact, it's at record numbers. Vigilance and awareness are still required.
Quote from: captainkurtz on July 16, 2022, 08:05:59 PMDaughter taken to hospital today as she was exhibiting the same behaviour as when she had a fit back in 2019 - she has hydrocephalus, so we have to be careful.
Sorry to hear that, hope she makes a quick recovery
This is an interesting BBC documentary.
"Hannah Fry meets seven unvaccinated people to investigate why around four million adults remain unvaccinated against Covid-19, and to find out if any of them will change their mind."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0019g27/unvaccinated
Quote from: pxr5 on July 22, 2022, 03:44:38 PMThis is an interesting BBC documentary.
"Hannah Fry meets seven unvaccinated people to investigate why around four million adults remain unvaccinated against Covid-19, and to find out if any of them will change their mind."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0019g27/unvaccinated
Yes, I saw that. Interesting but lots of salient points not discussed:
Average age of 'covid' death (apparently now risen from 82 to 85yrs)
Average age of those still being admitted to ICU
Co-morbidities
Waning lethality of virus
Vitamin D
Low death rate in countries with low vaccine uptake
Undiagnosed serious side-effects (Myocarditis, in particular)
Viral load
Infection in hospitals
Waning effects of vaccine
Merits of vaccinating cohorts that are largely unaffected by the effects of the virus (certainly in the light of Adam Finn suggesting the vaccines are ineffective in preventing transmission, on the programme)
I know time would have been a factor but for omitting some of these discussions it came across as propaganda IMHO.
I think they also chose the participants, ahem......carefully ;D ;)
Shame the 'experts' didn't see this coming:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/child-hepatitis-surge-blamed-on-covid-lockdown-d0cc3h888
I do recall Chris Smith saying that the lockdowns would result in lower immunity to flu and other infectious diseases, though he wasn't against them. Whether he had hepatitis in mind I don't know, but there's always a balance of risk.
The latest Omicron variant wave looks to have peaked and cases are dropping off almost as rapidly as they rose - again.
The Pagels of this world will have to wait for their next fifteen minutes. ::)
It's been revealed today that 13,000 children were excluded from school for breaching Covid-19 restrictions, including social distancing rules. Shameful, authoritarian nonsense.
I think that's the right approach. Those rules were important and in this case the exclusion wasn't merely a disciplinary measure of course, but a way to prevent those kids spreading an infectious disease that had already killed thousands.
If you didn't believe the Djokovic farrago was just grandstanding from the Australian authorities:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2022/08/08/picture-sums-lunacy-team-australias-covid-attitudes/
Dual strain Moderna vaccine approved in the UK:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62548336
- Designed to target Omicron
- Provides substantially better antibody response
- Entering our arms this autumn
Wife has had bad cold symptoms all day so we dug out a lateral flow test, and yep - positive. A very clear line on the test kit and it came up in seconds.
I have a mild headache and vaguely out-of-sorts feeling myself but that could well be the sort of debilitation that imbibing cocktails every day for a week causes.
We returned from our cruise yesterday. Unfortunately a cruise ship is a sort of floating plague village so I'm not really surprised. I'll take a test myself if I do get more obvious symptoms, but I'll isolate anyway.
Hope the vaccinations take the edge off the worse of it. I did a trade show in Germany in the summer and unsurprisingly it was rife throughout post show with visitors and exhibitors.
It certainly seems to have been rife among those who have been vaccinated :-\
Well I don't believe any data exists to suggest that the vaccinated are more susceptible to infection, though I stand ready to be corrected on that. I do believe that it's been established beyond doubt that the vaccinated are less susceptible to serious illness and fatality.
Eight months since we had our boosters though.
I tested negative about 90 minutes ago. Will be maintaining a respectful distance from the wife for a day or several.
Quote from: David L on September 07, 2022, 09:52:40 PMIt certainly seems to have been rife among those who have been vaccinated :-\
Vaccines are for mitigation not prevention.
The plural of anecdote isn't data, but, to my knowledge, as a triple-vaxxed person, I've (somehow) never had Covid, despite being in close proximity of family members and work colleagues who have had it at least once - getting Covid seems to be the luck of the draw; what happens from then, though, undoubtedly less so.
Quote from: Matt2112 on September 09, 2022, 09:13:19 AMQuote from: David L on September 07, 2022, 09:52:40 PMIt certainly seems to have been rife among those who have been vaccinated :-\
Vaccines are for mitigation not prevention.
That appears to be the case, although not by design ;)
Got myself booked in next Tues for booster and flu jab..
Quote from: Slim on September 08, 2022, 06:40:07 PMI tested negative about 90 minutes ago. Will be maintaining a respectful distance from the wife for a day or several.
Four days later - woke up with a sore throat and slightly fluey feeling. Not bad enough to call in sick. No runny nose. And yet, I tested negative about an hour ago. Not a trace on the test strip, whereas Sue's came up very clear in 15 seconds.
The only person I could possibly have caught a cold from is Sue, so it seems a bit of an odd one.
Got flu and booster this morning.. feeling a bit tired I have to say but otherwise ok👍
Quote from: Slim on September 12, 2022, 11:43:12 AMQuote from: Slim on September 08, 2022, 06:40:07 PMI tested negative about 90 minutes ago. Will be maintaining a respectful distance from the wife for a day or several.
Four days later - woke up with a sore throat and slightly fluey feeling. Not bad enough to call in sick. No runny nose. And yet, I tested negative about an hour ago. Not a trace on the test strip, whereas Sue's came up very clear in 15 seconds.
The only person I could possibly have caught a cold from is Sue, so it seems a bit of an odd one.
Started feeling awful at about 3:30pm yesterday, and took myself off to bed 15 minutes later. I've only just got up again!
Very rough night last night. Very nasty headache and at one point I was semi-delirious, my head felt like it was overheating. I have a nasty cough, but it's only bothering me infrequently. Couldn't sleep and I was getting up every two hours for a wee, and wondering where it was all coming from. I must have expelled two litres of urine. Despite that I didn't feel particularly dehydrated.
I took another test just now and it came up positive very clearly this time.
(https://i.ibb.co/SnJLqyv/220913test.jpg)
So: for me anyway although it's been unpleasant, it hasn't really been that bad. Certainly no difficulty breathing or anything like that. No loss of smell or taste. How it would have gone if I hadn't been triple-jabbed, I don't know. Nothing devastating, probably. A single paracetamol helped, I'll take another one before I go to bed but I hope the worst of it has passed now.
Very interesting that even after developing symptoms yesterday, I tested negative.
Wife has recovered nicely.
What a weird illness. It doesn't seem to play by any rules. I'm still frightened by the thought of it to be honest. I hope you feel better soon and are stocked up on even more immunity.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on September 13, 2022, 03:41:29 PMWhat a weird illness. It doesn't seem to play by any rules. I'm still frightened by the thought of it to be honest.
You've got nothing to fear but fear itself ;)
Managed to stay out of bed for four hours or so yesterday. Woke up in a shocking sweat at 2:30 in the morning, got up to go to the loo and had to get back into a damp bed :-\
Felt a bit better after that though. Just got up again. Still feel very rough but better than yesterday. I've only eaten two slices of toast in the last 46 hours. But I shall attempt a yoghurt shortly.
That sounds worse than I would have hoped after a couple of days considering the vaccinations. Maybe better I catch this now at long last before some Autumn / Winter variant flexes its spikes. Very few mask wearers in the shops this morning and even Waitrose's sanitiser dispenser seems to have dried up.
It's really not that bad. It's tiring more than anything else, and the headache can be treated with paracetamol. I probably should have taken more paracetamol than I have (two) but I just don't like to take medication if I can avoid it.
Started feeling unwell at work yesterday and went home early.
Had a sleepless night twisting and turning and today I feel shocking; feeble all over with a horrible, phlegmy throat and runny nose.
LFT shows the darkest line against the "T" I've ever seen.
This is not nice at all. 😟
Man, two people from this one group down at the same time. It must still be quite rife. Hope you recover soon Matt.
Get well soon Matt, I think I'm getting over it now. Just feeling a bit weak, very low on mojo. Only a faint trace of a headache.
Quote from: Matt2112 on September 14, 2022, 06:07:55 PMStarted feeling unwell at work yesterday and went home early.
Had a sleepless night twisting and turning and today I feel shocking; feeble all over with a horrible, phlegmy throat and runny nose.
LFT shows the darkest line against the "T" I've ever seen.
This is not nice at all. 😟
Another week and you'll feel OK...
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on September 14, 2022, 09:42:42 PMAnother week and you'll feel OK...
Another jab and you'll feel invincible ;)
Take care both. I got it at the absolutely worst time of my working year - I just couldn't take any time off and was still out every day (luckily, my job is reasonably solitary). Wasn't great, but got through it.
Hope you both feel better soon.
Yes, best wishes to you both.
Well on the mend now. Got up at 0945 and managed a bit of light cycling. Still getting coughing fits and feel a bit beat up but 300% better than Tuesday.
Quote from: Slim on September 15, 2022, 05:29:02 PMWell on the mend now. Got up at 0945 and managed a bit of light cycling. Still getting coughing fits and feel a bit beat up but 300% better than Tuesday.
Good to hear - hopefully I'm not too far behind on my progress.
The only "positive" I've had so far is about half a stone of weight loss. :-\
Same here, I lost about 8 pounds. Partly from not eating, partly because fighting a fever burns calories. I did put a few pounds on during my hols earlier in the month from drinking and eating cooked breakfasts every day though so I'm pleased about that.
Glad to hear you are both on the mend.
I used to get at least two or three fairly substantial colds a year. Not bad enough to take time of work but enough to feel a bit poorly for a couple of days.
A bit weird that since getting Covid in March 2020, I don't recall getting a cold. It may be the case that getting the virus 'supercharged' my natural immunity. The only other factor that might be coming into play is that, for about the last eighteen months, I've been regularly taking Manuka honey and eating sourdough bread. That has more or less eradicated some persistent gastric issues but may have boosted my immunity too :-\
Classic vaccine disinformation piece here in the Daily Sceptic:
https://dailysceptic.org/2022/09/15/denmark-bans-covid-vaccines-for-under-50s-but-doesnt-properly-explain-why/
Denmark is rolling out a booster campaign for the over-50s. The piece I linked above describes this as a "ban". Denmark has "banned" the under-50s from taking the vaccine, but won't explain why, it claims.
But Denmark hasn't banned any vaccine at all, and it has explained why only the over '50s are getting the booster explicitly:
(https://i.ibb.co/yfq8PGF/danishvax.jpg)
Needless to say the usual nutters on the various social media are nonetheless accepting the piece as absolute proof that the vaccines are harmful.
What a shame this approach was not adopted across the world when it became clear that healthy people below 65 were very unlikely to get seriously ill from Covid-19. That would have been fairly soon after the virus emerged.
A very sensible approach. The public money wasted on a 'blanket' approach has been considerable. The term 'vaccination' should also have been dropped, it has long been acknowledged that this is not accurate as it is clearly a therapeutic as it does not immunise.
The disinformation has come from both sides....a lot of it state-sponsored, of course
That article does raise the important question as to why Denmark does not seem to be allowing under 50s to fund their own jabs...does it not? It may not point towards any specific danger to that cohort but it does appear to suggest a huge waste of public money on previous jab campaigns.
A definite - albeit slight - improvement in my overall condition today.
I feel a bit more "myself", though some secondary symptoms are manifest now, particularly some pain in the small of my back from being bed-ridden for 3 days. And my hair is a wild mess.
I must have slept a bit but none of it was quality sleep - there's still a weird, feverish quality to my dreams - but in the meantime my antibodies have definitely been on the march and taken some ground.
Hell, I may even try some food later. 🥴
Quote from: David L on September 16, 2022, 07:10:46 AMWhat a shame this approach was not adopted across the world when it became clear that healthy people below 65 were very unlikely to get seriously ill from Covid-19. That would have been fairly soon after the virus emerged.
A very sensible approach. The public money wasted on a 'blanket' approach has been considerable. The term 'vaccination' should also have been dropped, it has long been acknowledged that this is not accurate as it is clearly a therapeutic as it does not immunise.
The disinformation has come from both sides....a lot of it state-sponsored, of course
That article does raise the important question as to why Denmark does not seem to be allowing under 50s to fund their own jabs...does it not? It may not point towards any specific danger to that cohort but it does appear to suggest a huge waste of public money on previous jab campaigns.
Firstly I know of no state-sponsored vaccine / COVID disinformation, but perhaps that's taken place in other countries than this one.
More importantly what you're overlooking is that the situation now is very different from the one that prevailed when the vaccines first became available. There's a lot more immunity in the community now, most people have already had more than one jab fortunately, or recovered from the disease once - and as far as I'm aware the presently dominant variant is less severe than the ones that were going around in early 2021.
I have no doubt that the right approach then was to blanket-vaccinate the whole population and I'm glad that a booster campaign for older people is adequate now.
Quote from: Slim on September 16, 2022, 10:24:39 AMMore importantly what you're overlooking is that the situation now is very different from the one that prevailed when the vaccines first became available. There's a lot more immunity in the community now, most people have already had more than one jab fortunately, or recovered from the disease once - and as far as I'm aware the presently dominant variant is less severe than the ones that were going around in early 2021.
The data from the early days of the pandemic was clear. The virus was highly discriminatory, that's always been the case.
Quote from: Slim on September 16, 2022, 10:24:39 AMI have no doubt that the right approach then was to blanket-vaccinate the whole population and I'm glad that a booster campaign for older people is adequate now.
Fortunately children were not victims to that mind-set, although I think it was a close-call
Remember in the earlier stages the "Great Barrington Declaration" being maligned, despite having a fair bit of relevant expertise behind it?
Isn't that effectively what we have in place now?
Have the Carl Heneghans of the world been vindicated?
Perhaps all moot now, but also perhaps a lesson learned.
Quote from: David L on September 16, 2022, 11:00:08 AMQuote from: Slim on September 16, 2022, 10:24:39 AMMore importantly what you're overlooking is that the situation now is very different from the one that prevailed when the vaccines first became available. There's a lot more immunity in the community now, most people have already had more than one jab fortunately, or recovered from the disease once - and as far as I'm aware the presently dominant variant is less severe than the ones that were going around in early 2021.
The data from the early days of the pandemic was clear. The virus was highly discriminatory, that's always been the case.
Don't think anyone has suggested that it wasn't, in terms of its consequences. But it was indiscriminate in terms of its spread - which made the blanket vaccine policy the correct approach. Perhaps you've forgotten that studies in 2021 had shown that a single dose could significantly help to prevent transmission.
Quote from: Slim on September 16, 2022, 12:24:13 PMDon't think anyone has suggested that it wasn't, in terms of its consequences. But it was indiscriminate in terms of its spread - which made the blanket vaccine policy the correct approach. Perhaps you've forgotten that studies in 2021 had shown that a single dose could significantly help to prevent transmission.
Allowing transmission of a virus that had no ill-effects for many and mild ill-effects for most would have helped build immunity sooner (certainly at far less cost)......whilst vaccinating the vulnerable of course. There are many countries where this process has taken place, due to scarcity of vaccines. They appear to be in no worse position than those that tried to vaccinate everyone
Pleased to report more progress:
Two bowls of soup at lunch-time (first food in almost 72 hours - I found I was ravenous);
An extended period of sitting up rather than feeling like I had to lie down;
Being mindful the dog hasn't had a proper walk since Monday, by late afternoon I felt like I had enough energy to take him to the nearby park and see how long I lasted - but tonight was a very pleasantly cool evening and quite bracing, so I was able to allow him a good hour's run-out;
And tonight I managed to polish off a chicken noodle stir-fry.
All of that seemed incomprehensible 24 hours ago; I'm still far off a full recovery, but I'm optimistic tomorrow there'll be further improvement. 🙂
A couple more major symptoms have all but receded completely now: the insomnia (had a decent kip overnight) and the loss of appetite.
The nausea which dominated the early stages is pretty much gone also.
Still manifest though is a fair bit of muscle weakness, some stiffness in the back and some, erm, erratic bowel movements which today almost caused a premature evacuation.
But things are on the right track. 🙂
A really good night's sleep last night and I awoke feeling the most chipper I have in several days.
In high spirits, I felt like I could go out and throw myself into the day as I normally would, but this was tempered by being keenly aware there was still significant underlying muscle weakness and to do too much too soon would likely be counter-productive.
Another not so small matter is that a LFT today shows I'm still Covid positive - though the line is much fainter than it was a few days ago, when it glowed like a supernova.
I'm feeling "good" - but just need to be patient and let the recovery take the path of least resistance. 🙂
I feel OK now, but I've just tested positive. Fairly clear line as well. Six days after my first positive test. Will do another one on Wednesday.
Quote from: Slim on September 19, 2022, 02:05:26 PMI feel OK now, but I've just tested positive. Fairly clear line as well. Six days after my first positive test. Will do another one on Wednesday.
Yes, I'm ready to get back to work again tomorrow, though based at home; will try a LFT in the morning and report.
EDIT: Still positive - bit frustrating; but feeling fine now, so just need to be patient.
Yesterday's test result. Pretty stark. I just hope I'm not personally incubating a new strain of immune resistant supervirus.
(https://i.ibb.co/HG1Jq4G/testres-ano.jpg)
Two days later .. still positive. I feel OK though. Will test again on Friday.
I'm using these, £9 for a box of 5.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedychecks-Covid-19-Antigen-Lateral-Travel/dp/B0B4K5C5HP/
Interesting:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/nearly-90-000-more-people-died-at-home-from-non-covid-causes-in-pandemic/ar-AA122Tpi?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=2e4d9909dc914848b7243c5048ad911c
"The ONS said that many of the excess deaths this year were owing to cardiac arrhythmias, heart diseases and diabetes, as well as dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
Dr Sonya Babu-Narayan, the associate medical director at the British Heart Foundation, said that urgent research was needed to find out why so many more people were dying of heart problems."
:-\
Just had a LFT: negative!! :D
One swallow may not make a summer though, so will try another tomorrow morning.
EDIT: hold on, hold on...someone has observed the faintest of lines against the T and, on closer scrutiny, I have to admit it's there. Very faint, yes, but definitely there. False alarm... 🙁
Absolutely delighted to report - for definite this time - that today's LFT is incontrovertibly negative.
The space next to the T is now as pure as the driven snow.
Absolutely buzzing. 8)
Thank you for all the supportive words. :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on September 22, 2022, 01:46:54 PMAbsolutely delighted to report - for definite this time - that today's LFT is incontrovertibly negative.
The space next to the T is now as pure as the driven snow.
Absolutely buzzing. 8)
Thank you for all the supportive words. :)
Exceptional news 👍
Suspect I may test negative this morning, but will leave it until tomorrow I think. Don't need to mingle today.
Received an invitation for my Covid booster jab today - nicely timed, I thought.
Booked for Sunday.
Quote from: Matt2112 on September 23, 2022, 05:22:30 PMReceived an invitation for my Covid booster jab today - nicely timed, I thought.
Booked for Sunday.
The wife received her own invitation today and booked it for next week, until she remembered that you're supposed to wait four weeks after being infected - so she's re-booked it for the end of October. I think you should at least mention it to your GP.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-booster-dose-resources/covid-19-vaccination-a-guide-to-booster-vaccination-for-individuals-aged-18-years-and-over
(https://i.ibb.co/s5jdHCs/boosterwait.png)
Thanks James, wasn't aware.
I will reschedule.
Finally tested negative yesterday morning. Phew!
Quote from: Matt2112 on September 24, 2022, 01:56:16 AMThanks James, wasn't aware.
I will reschedule.
I'd take a look at this before you do
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtE0I5FqHPs&feature=youtu.be
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra
Quote from: Slim on September 27, 2022, 11:19:46 PMhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra
Here you go, this makes it easier for all who are interested:
COVID-19
In 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic and before there were any approved vaccines for COVID-19, Malhotra published a book[11] claiming that following his dietary advice could grant "metabolic optimization" which would, in 21 days, decrease the risk of viral infection. David Gorski criticized the book[1] because the biggest single risk factor for COVID-19 infection is age, which people cannot change. Gorski said that while Malhotra had a germ of a good point and that it was undeniable that losing weight for someone who is obese would reduce their risk of complications, the claims about the book were massively exaggerated and there was no specific evidence for the impact of lifestyle recommendations on the risk of COVID-19 or that Malhotra's version of a healthy diet was better or worse than any other healthy lifestyle recommendation. Gorski was also concerned that telling people that they should be in control of their susceptibility to disease may have an element of victim blaming because that shifts responsibility for disease onto individuals, many of whom are unable to follow the kind of diet Malhotra advocates.[1]
In November 2021, Malhotra appeared on GB News to discuss an abstract for an academic poster published by Steven Gundry and which the American Heart Association had warned may contain "potential errors". Malhotra claimed that the abstract supported "a significantly increased risk from 11% at five years, the risk of heart attack, to 25%." after taking mRNA vaccines against COVID-19. Full Fact warned that "Serious concerns have been raised as to the quality of the research".[63]
File under 'dangerous lunatic' ;D
Wife and I popped up for our boosters and flu jabs earlier today. Booster was Pfizer, but for the second time they have no flu jabs and no idea when they'll become available here.
Well - 'er indoors has her booster booked for tomorrow, but I haven't booked one so far. I'm not sure whether I will bother.
Here's my thinking.
I've just had a dose of COVID, and it didn't make me seriously ill. If anything, the natural immunity boost I've had from that will have improved my situation.
We don't have a threat of lockdown to overcome, or (presently) a risk of the NHS being overwhelmed. I work from home and don't often interact with strangers or other people outside my household.
I'm not sure I should get a booster at this time.
Booster and 'flu jab tomorrow. I wonder which booster I'll receive. I think I heard a while back that Moderna was the good one to get but I suppose anything is better than nothing.
Flu jab invite arrived today.
I always feel a brief, slight twinge of guilt when this happens because I get it for free only on a medical technicality.
But then I'm a Yorkshireman, so getting owt for nowt makes me happy.
Got my 'flu and booster jabs this morning. Quite pleased that it was the Moderna vaccine this time but expect I'll will feel dodgy tonight and tomorrow if it follows the course of previous experiences.
Quote from: Slim on October 06, 2022, 10:41:03 PMWell - 'er indoors has her booster booked for tomorrow, but I haven't booked one so far. I'm not sure whether I will bother.
Here's my thinking.
I've just had a dose of COVID, and it didn't make me seriously ill. If anything, the natural immunity boost I've had from that will have improved my situation.
We don't have a threat of lockdown to overcome, or (presently) a risk of the NHS being overwhelmed. I work from home and don't often interact with strangers or other people outside my household.
I'm not sure I should get a booster at this time.
Interested in people's thoughts on this, as I'm genuinely undecided. I don't doubt that it was important to get the first three jabs, I haven't changed my stance on that but circumstances have moved on. One thing I didn't mention above is that Omicron, which has now completely usurped previous variants, is less severe (as far as we know, according to the data).
Depends what you read I suppose. Good lengthy articles online on this question by BMJ and Imperial College. Tends to lean towards natural immunity not so good as vaccination, but various arguments for and against. I get a bit of arrhythmia when I'm not feeling so good and I think my booster is causing this today. However, I've not had COVID yet, so who knows what effect that might have. A young woman checking in for her booster today had had COVID recently (more than 29 days ago as is the vaccination requirement) and the medical staff were happy to get her jabbed.
QuoteInterested in people's thoughts on this, as I'm genuinely undecided. I don't doubt that it was important to get the first three jabs, I haven't changed my stance on that but circumstances have moved on. One thing I didn't mention above is that Omicron, which has now completely usurped previous variants, is less severe (as far as we know, according to the data).
Yes, it seems there's two ways of looking at it, and neither are likely to result in a serious negative outcome.
Having the fourth vax can't hurt; but then it may be like using the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Myself, well, because my recent Covid infection was not a pleasant experience at all, I'm very inclined to take the fourth vax when recommended, if that is potentially the difference between feeling utterly dreadful for a few days and merely having a sore throat, or something.
Unless you're elderly or vulnerable, my instinct would say do not have the vaccine. It may cause heart issues
A fair number of common, routine medications may cause heart issues. And a few other issues - have you read those leaflets that come in the packets. ;)
Quote from: Matt2112 on October 07, 2022, 10:09:53 PMA fair number of common, routine medications may cause heart issues. And a few other issues - have you read those leaflets that come in the packets. ;)
They are used to treat an existing condition or symptomatic health issues though ;)
Well, I wasn't expecting this! Up until now I've had a few boosters and felt a bit fluey and out of sorts for a couple of days. However, last night after yesterday's Moderna vaccine I had to take myself to bed early as I felt so bad. Spent the whole night in a state of ache and confusion, not the usual mild 'flu discomfort but a full on deep seated pain. Even turning in bed was absolutely dreadful and a slight back strain I had from earlier in the week chopping firewood had turned into a severe issue. I'm glad I have dogs as they made me get up or I think I'd still be in bed not improving as quickly. My lasting memory of last night will be trying to mentally solve this problem which didn't exist and trying to formulate a way that I could submit it as a dossier to help other people. Crazy! Totally out of it. Feel really sorry for my sister. She got the same vaccine coincidentally on the same day and has some important stuff to attend to this morning. I hope this Moderna drug works.
Quote from: David L on October 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AMQuote from: Matt2112 on October 07, 2022, 10:09:53 PMA fair number of common, routine medications may cause heart issues. And a few other issues - have you read those leaflets that come in the packets. ;)
They are used to treat an existing condition or symptomatic health issues though ;)
Aspirin is often prescribed as a preventative risk-reducer (as it is in my case - not that the risk is now not that high anyway!) :)
Lou and I had avoided Covid so far (I still have at the point of typing) but Mrs P tested positive on Thursday evening. Interestingly that set off a chain of events! As she is considered at a higher risk, marginally, because of her MS, she had applied for a box of free tests, which came with a request to register the results.
Registered the positive result Friday morning, received an email a couple of hours later saying that she may be eligible for new treatments to reduce the effect of Covid. Phone call this morning from the Churchill Hospital in Oxford and a few hours later we are in the dialysis unit and she is having an infusion. As this was of Saline Solution I wondered at first if it was a placebo but apparently not.
Symptom wise it appears to be like a really nasty flu - she's quite poorly and completely zonked out but, stable, and no thoughts at all of admission or anything.
Sent home with a fingertip pulse oximeter to test herself over next 14 days.
Be interesting to see if this speeds up the recovery?
Quote from: Pudders on October 08, 2022, 06:45:49 PMLou and I had avoided Covid so far (I still have at the point of typing) but Mrs P tested positive on Thursday evening. Interestingly that set of a chain of events! As she is considered at a higher risk, marginally, because of her MS, she had applied for a box of free tests, which came with a request to register the results.
Registered the positive result Friday morning, received an email a couple of hours later saying that she may be eligible for new treatments to reduce the effect of Covid. Phone call this morning from the Churchill Hospital in Oxford and a few hours later we are in the dialysis unit and she is having an infusion. As this was of Saline Solution I wondered at first if it was a placebo but apparently not.
Symptom wise it appears to be like a really nasty flu - she's quite poorly and completely zonked out but, stable, and no thoughts at all of admission or anything.
Sent home with a fingertip pulse oximeter to test herself over next 14 days.
Be interesting to see if this speeds up the recovery?
Hope Lou makes a speedy recovery, Pudders. Best wishes
Yes, same from me, Pudders. ❤️
Best wishes from me as well Neil.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on October 08, 2022, 11:15:54 AMMy lasting memory of last night will be trying to mentally solve this problem which didn't exist and trying to formulate a way that I could submit it as a dossier to help other people. Crazy! Totally out of it.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience from the vaccine. A few times in my life I've been pole-axed by a virus and I've had a similar experience, with semi-hallucinogenic unreality superimposing itself over the input from my senses.
During my COVID episode a few weeks ago, even though I knew where I was and I was awake, for a few hours I was processing my thoughts through some sort of symbolic half-dream logic about large cubic blocks interacting with each other that's very hard to explain.
Never had worse than feeling rough and tired from the COVID vaccine, though.
Hope all goes well for Lou Pudders :)
We've got a friend with MS and she didn't suffer as badly with COVID as her husband - but he's a real wuss...
I've yet to have the current booster, but I had the Moderna one as a booster earlier this year and was fine with it. Just a bit more of a sore arm than the first two doses.
I'm getting the booster in a fortnight. 4th Jab. First 2 were fine, third one made just made me feel unbelievably tired.
Best wishes and love to Lou, Neil.
For me, last year's winter flu vaccine had far stronger side effects than all three Covid jabs.
But still far, far less unpleasant than my Covid symptoms the other week.
Luck of the draw, I suppose.
Thanks all, much appreciated. We should have been heading down to Fowey today to spend a few days with my sister but obviously have had to postpone (no Osprey photos this year then!). Ironically Lou was about to book her booster (hospital unimpressed she hadn't been notified earlier) but will now have to wait a bit I guess, looking at earlier posts in this thread.
As for me, feeling a bit meh, but no more meh than the many, many times I've tested before and been negative so, I'll have a another beer!
Quote from: Pudders on October 08, 2022, 06:45:49 PMLou and I had avoided Covid so far (I still have at the point of typing) but Mrs P tested positive on Thursday evening. Interestingly that set off a chain of events! As she is considered at a higher risk, marginally, because of her MS, she had applied for a box of free tests, which came with a request to register the results.
Registered the positive result Friday morning, received an email a couple of hours later saying that she may be eligible for new treatments to reduce the effect of Covid. Phone call this morning from the Churchill Hospital in Oxford and a few hours later we are in the dialysis unit and she is having an infusion. As this was of Saline Solution I wondered at first if it was a placebo but apparently not.
Symptom wise it appears to be like a really nasty flu - she's quite poorly and completely zonked out but, stable, and no thoughts at all of admission or anything.
Sent home with a fingertip pulse oximeter to test herself over next 14 days.
Be interesting to see if this speeds up the recovery?
Sorry to hear Lou has got Covid. I hope the special treatment helps and she is not too ill. Best wishes from me too.
Lou tested negative today which is quite impressive me thinks? Follows a faint line yesterday. Test in hospital on Saturday was really bold so just one of those things or a result of the infusion?
I'm still negative as well, though still plenty of time for that to change of course.
Great news about Lou.
I had my 4th covid jab at 5pm. Feel completely unaffected. No sore arm or tiredness this time.
Quote from: captainkurtz on October 12, 2022, 09:50:55 PMGreat news about Lou.
I had my 4th covid jab at 5pm. Feel completely unaffected. No sore arm or tiredness this time.
Bit early for tiredness to kick in, or it would be for me. But I hope you feel fine tomorrow.
Quote from: Pudders on October 11, 2022, 05:05:09 PMLou tested negative today which is quite impressive me thinks? Follows a faint line yesterday. Test in hospital on Saturday was really bold so just one of those things or a result of the infusion?
I'm still negative as well, though still plenty of time for that to change of course.
That's good to hear
Dr Chris Smith and Linda Bould are back on breakfast TV...........jesus, no!
Quote from: David L on October 15, 2022, 10:27:03 AMDr Chris Smith and Linda Bould are back on breakfast TV...........jesus, no!
Ah, good - two sensible figures who bust myths peddled by the panicking and the complacent alike. See also: Uncle Tim Spector. :)
It's that time of year when the cases start to rise. Just had a look on the gov.uk Coronavirus dashboard, haven't done that for a while but positive tests, deaths and hospital admissions have all climbed substantially this month.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Another negative test this morning so I guess it's been some other form of fluey misery for the past couple of days. It did seem more gastric than perhaps I would expect COVID to be. I was strangely disappointed when the second line didn't appear after a slightly delirious night again, as I was hoping to rid myself of this spectre at last. Will probably steer clear of the takeaway I used on Saturday night just in case they poisoned me.
Nurse Campbell at his grifting, scaremongering-for-money worst here. In this one, he discusses research in which a hybrid strain of SARS-CoV-2 has been created. The new strain killed 80% of the mice that were exposed to it, compared to none for the common-or-garden Omicron that's circulating in the real world.
Within the first two minutes of his video, Campbell comments "
OK, it might not be that bad if it escapes into people. It might only kill 40% of the people it infects, or 4% .. we don't know"It took me three minutes of googling material about this research to find out that:
- The mice had been genetically engineered to be more susceptible to COVID
- They were exposed to massive viral loads, directly up their nostrils (poor little buggers)
and more importantly
- The hybrid virus is actually less lethal than the original Wuhan strain, which had a human mortality rate of considerably less than 40%, or even 4%.
Pfizer increasing the cost of doses of the covid jab from $30 to $130 in US
https://qz.com/pfizer-plans-to-sell-its-covid-vaccine-at-a-10-000-mar-1849688359
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-inquiry-focusing-solely-on-safety-of-vaccines-will-not-be-opened-govt-says-12729605
Must admit there hasn't really been a lot of discussion about the supposed new information on the vaccine risk from respected sources which is unfortunate as the tin foilers are having a field day with it at the moment.
All medication carries risk, as Chris Whitty pointed out very frequently during the vaccine rollout. The question is whether it outweighs the risk of inaction.
The video above doesn't make the case that it does. I wonder what the presenter's qualifications are. A public health statistician? Physician of some sort?
Quote from: David L on October 26, 2022, 10:27:10 AMhttps://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-inquiry-focusing-solely-on-safety-of-vaccines-will-not-be-opened-govt-says-12729605
""The government has already commissioned a public inquiry into the pandemic, and COVID vaccines will be reviewed as part of this inquiry. There are no plans for an inquiry solely on vaccine safety."
Seems entirely reasonable to me, I must say - especially in light of:
"There is no evidence that people are at an increased risk of cardiac arrest in the days and weeks following the vaccine, and the risk of getting myocarditis or pericarditis after the vaccine remains very low."
Quote from: Slim on October 26, 2022, 10:29:21 AMI wonder what the presenter's qualifications are. A public health statistician? Physician of some sort?
His qualifications are irrelevant. He's
presenting the findings of a serious paper by the Japan Institute of Pharma-Co Vigilance
Booked my booster for next week.
Had the flu vaccine on Tuesday and Covid vaccine in Wednesday. No ill effects from either. Was expecting the Covid one to have me suffering a bit but nothing!
Interesting. Data from around the world suggests that the pre-vaccination infection fatality rate (IFR) was much lower in non-elderly populations than previously suggested. The models that recommended lockdowns, mask wearing and vaccination of the whole population were very inaccurate as they were based on an assumed IFR that was wrong - quelle surprise
At this point, I can't really trust Campbell to present these conclusions honestly, and certainly not expertly. I get that he's presenting real studies, and real data but there are a lot of those to choose from.
Also - we didn't need to model or predict the power of COVID to overwhelm hospitals, because we'd seen it happen in countries that were ahead of us on the curve. No question in my mind that the lockdowns, masks and universal vaccine rollout were necessary.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597
Quote from: Slim on October 29, 2022, 10:00:58 PMNo question in my mind that the lockdowns, masks and universal vaccine rollout were necessary.
And that was always going to be the most important place in which those things were considered to be necessary ;)
Money being wasted all over the place. Good news for big Pharma.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/covid-vaccine-doses-wasted-rcna31399
https://news.err.ee/1608765268/estonia-seeking-to-escape-deluge-of-covid-vaccine-doses-save-some-cash
https://www.thesun.ie/health/9629930/covid-vaccine-ireland-shock-tiny-number-used/
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/covid-19-vaccines-expired-waste-moh-3026591
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14736329
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-42-of-pfizer-vaccines-going-to-waste-in-nz/6RDK366R2T6N2DAFR57NLCHP3I/
The chances of very bad outcomes are far greater from being infected by Covid compared to having any of the vaccines - which, beyond any doubt, are very likely to significantly mitigate Covid symptoms.
Adults having the vaccine, it strikes me, is therefore a no-brainier, in the absence of medical advice to the contrary.
Yet still there is a loud element in the discourse surrounding the discussion that continue to insist, in the teeth of all the accumulated evidence, that the vaccines are more hazardous to health than Covid itself.
Well, while acknowledging that the plural of anecdote is not data, I will say that my three Covid jabs so far resulted in a bout of light-headedness at worst, last year's winter flu jab caused me to take a day and a half off work, and Covid itself quite recently made me feel the shittiest I've ever been since I had a nasty case of gastroenteritis about 12 years ago, when I also spent a week and a half off work.
If vaccines had a mitigating influence, then the consequences of being unvaccinated don't bear thinking about.
My recommendation would be to play the percentages.
Quote from: Matt2112 on October 30, 2022, 01:10:25 AMThe chances of very bad outcomes are far greater from being infected by Covid compared to having any of the vaccines - which, beyond any doubt, are very likely to significantly mitigate Covid symptoms.
Adults having the vaccine, it strikes me, is therefore a no-brainier, in the absence of medical advice to the contrary.
Yet still there is a loud element in the discourse surrounding the discussion that continue to insist, in the teeth of all the accumulated evidence, that the vaccines are more hazardous to health than Covid itself.
Well, while acknowledging that the plural of anecdote is not data, I will say that my three Covid jabs so far resulted in a bout of light-headedness at worst, last year's winter flu jab caused me to take a day and a half off work, and Covid itself quite recently made me feel the shittiest I've ever been since I had a nasty case of gastroenteritis about 12 years ago, when I also spent a week and a half off work.
If vaccines had a mitigating influence, then the consequences of being unvaccinated don't bear thinking about.
My recommendation would be to play the percentages.
In the light of strong data from worldwide studies suggesting that the lethality of covid (Wuhan variant) in the pre-vaccinated population was overstated, the conclusion is that the result of any risk/benefit analysis was incorrect.
To me, that seems quite important and supports my own decision.
Of course, personal decisions are what it's about but most made decisions without the most relevant facts.
A week ago I went to a gig with my friend Ian. Ian had phoned me the day before to say that he had tested positive for COVID and had mild symptoms. He'd understand if I didn't want to drive him to the gig, as we'd arranged.
Since I'd had COVID myself only one month previously I reasoned that I wasn't vulnerable to infection. I wouldn't have gone to an indoor public place myself in those circumstances but it's not my place to superimpose my conscience onto other people, so we went.
Hence I spent about 90 minutes last Sunday in all in a confined space (my Volkswagen UP) with a symptomatic COVID sufferer, and a couple of hours in a less confined space (the Rescue Rooms at Nottingham). And I haven't become infected myself, or at least I haven't had any symptoms.
A practical experiment in the power of natural immunity. Nothing surprising, of course - it's well known that you're highly unlikely to get another dose of the disease within three months. But quite interesting nonetheless.
I'm guessing you must have a Magic Tree in your car.😀
Quote from: Slim on October 30, 2022, 10:31:15 AM......but it's not my place to superimpose my conscience onto other people.....
made me ;D , that did ;)
No judgements...but is this a thing now? People with covid going to gigs? I think a lot of the fear and nervousness has gone now. I was lucky enough to avoid it until very late June - and I still had to go out every day and deal with different contractors and a whole load of other things - my busiest few weeks of the year. Just made sure to keep my distance though. Not sure whether I'd go to a gig with covid, mind.
I think pre-Covid, folk with flu or cold symptoms tended to be mindful they may infect others and act accordingly, particularly at work.
Now there are effective treatments for flu and Covid, perhaps now both viruses are regarded with a similar sort of soft vigilance?
Whether rightly or wrongly, it looks difficult to be certain.
This was reported a few days ago. I missed it on the BBC News ;D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11362165/Covid-likely-leaked-lab-explosive-Senate-says.html
That JVT was yanking our chain with that "jumping from species to species" bollocks, methinks
Excess mortality in the UK remains consistently above 15%, equating to an extra 1800 deaths per week (compared to five year average)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/01/crisis-excess-deaths-soar-levels-higher-covid-pandemic/
Same in Europe
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220916-1
Not seen that up on Huw Edwards' swanky new 'news wall' . Hmmm....
Quote from: David L on November 02, 2022, 10:04:20 PMThis was reported a few days ago. I missed it on the BBC News ;D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11362165/Covid-likely-leaked-lab-explosive-Senate-says.html
That JVT was yanking our chain with that "jumping from species to species" bollocks, methinks
"GOP members of the Senate Committee on Health Education, Labor and Pensions reviewed hundreds of studies into the origins of Covid and interviewed 'several dozen' experts over the past 15 months."
I'm reminded that a GOP member of the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology once told us that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory were all "lies from the pit of Hell".
As far as I can gather, the scientific consensus is that the virus is of natural origin, therefore I suspect the GOP members referred to here have gone out of their way to look for views to support the conclusion they preferred.
Quote from: Slim on November 02, 2022, 10:54:58 PMQuote from: David L on November 02, 2022, 10:04:20 PMThis was reported a few days ago. I missed it on the BBC News ;D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11362165/Covid-likely-leaked-lab-explosive-Senate-says.html
That JVT was yanking our chain with that "jumping from species to species" bollocks, methinks
"GOP members of the Senate Committee on Health Education, Labor and Pensions reviewed hundreds of studies into the origins of Covid and interviewed 'several dozen' experts over the past 15 months."
I'm reminded that a GOP member of the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology once told us that evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory were all "lies from the pit of Hell".
As far as I can gather, the scientific consensus is that the virus is of natural origin, therefore I suspect the GOP members referred to here have gone out of their way to look for views to support the conclusion they preferred.
In that case, absolutely no reasons for the Chinese authorities to be obstructive to those investigating the Wuhan lab :-\
My wife and I eventually had our flu jabs today. We've tried on a few occasions to get one form the official centre, but they never had any to offer. Today we came across a Pharmacy's mobile flu jab vehicle, so we popped in and were sorted in a few minutes. Hopefully that should be it now until next year.
This appears to be some months old but extremely interesting in the light of current excess deaths and increasing incidence of heart issues.
Conclusions of a study in Israel suggest that there is no increased incidence of myocarditis or pericarditis in post Covid-19 infected individuals. The study was conducted between March 2020 and January 2021, before vaccines were available.
" We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35456309/
So much conflicting information, as always.
Here's a New Scientist piece that refers to a study which shows that infection with COVID is more likely to lead to myocarditis than the vaccines, in younger males:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/
Here's a study that found that "Overall, the risk of myocarditis is greater after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after COVID-19 vaccination and remains modest after sequential doses including a booster dose of BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine. However, the risk of myocarditis after vaccination is higher in younger men, particularly after a second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine."
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.059970
Quote from: Slim on November 07, 2022, 11:03:19 AMHowever, the risk of myocarditis after vaccination is higher in younger men, particularly after a second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine."
And higher still, no doubt, after a third or fourth dose
:D
"Doctor.....I mean, Bill.....Gates" 😆
UK Parliament vaccine debate. MP Danny Kruger on point here:
Can't say I agree with much of what he says myself. Actually some of what he says is misleading or untrue, for example he claims that there's "never been a satisfactory explanation" for extending the vaccine programme to the whole population when this was debated, discussed and justified ad nauseam.
I cringed to see my own MP intervening there on a technical point, as if he's an immunologist. And Kruger tells him he's absolutely right. "The best vaccine against COVID is COVID", he says, without a hint of humility or self-consciousness, or indeed expertise.
I'm really not inclined to take matter-of-fact statements like this from two MPs with no background whatever in public health or medicine, especially when an idiot like Kruger who didn't have the sense to wear a face covering on public transport at the height of the pandemic goes on to lecture Chris Whitty about medical ethics.
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2022, 11:41:23 AMCan't say I agree with much of what he says myself. Actually some of what he says is misleading or untrue, for example he claims that there's "never been a satisfactory explanation" for extending the vaccine programme to the whole population when this was debated, discussed and justified ad nauseam.
Of course, there was an explanation put forward for extending the vaccine to the whole population but by Pfizer's own admission there was no evidence to support it
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2022, 11:41:23 AMI'm really not inclined to take matter-of-fact statements like this from two MPs with no background whatever in public health or medicine, especially when an idiot like Kruger who didn't have the sense to wear a face covering on public transport at the height of the pandemic goes on to lecture Chris Whitty about medical ethics.
Taking his lead from the PM at the time, no doubt:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boris-johnson-mask-train-hospital-b1962180.html
;)
Quote from: David L on November 11, 2022, 02:00:07 PMOf course, there was an explanation put forward for extending the vaccine to the whole population but by Pfizer's own admission there was no evidence to support it
That's a half-truth at best. Pfizer didn't test whether the vaccines reduced transmission from people who were already infected, but their trials did show that their vaccine reduced the risk of infection.
So it follows that they knew their vaccine reduced transmission in two ways - by directly preventing vaccinated people from getting COVID, and by preventing the same people from passing it onto other people irrespective of their vaccine status.
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2022, 02:45:12 PMThat's a half-truth at best. Pfizer didn't test whether the vaccines reduced transmission from people who were already infected, but their trials did show that their vaccine reduced the risk of infection.
The truth and Pfizer have been uneasy bedfellows in the past
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
Got round to having my booster today. Don't feel boosted.
Had the booster and flu jab last week on the same day but different arms. The covid jab was the more painful the following day.
Arm is now tender, but when I went for my jab I got a free blood pressure check thrown in - apparently they're doing it for over 40s to see if they need checking out. Mine was perfect.
Dr John Campbell discusses the results of a large-scale trial involving vitamin D. Not surprisingly the results show its effectiveness against Covid-19.
Whitty, Valance, Hancock et al should have been advocating supplements of vitamin D from the start - no money in it >:(
Excess deaths still concerning:
BMJ analysis of excess deaths here
https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2524
Short version (since most people in the comments under Nurse Campbell's video seem to have taken a different view): nothing to do with the vaccines.
Quote from: Slim on November 24, 2022, 10:53:29 AMBMJ analysis of excess deaths here
https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2524
Short version (since most people in the comments under Nurse Campbell's video seem to have taken a different view): nothing to do with the vaccines.
That's a relief......for those that have been vaccinated. Btw, did you have your latest booster?
Quote from: David L on November 24, 2022, 11:10:43 AMQuote from: Slim on November 24, 2022, 10:53:29 AMBMJ analysis of excess deaths here
https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2524
Short version (since most people in the comments under Nurse Campbell's video seem to have taken a different view): nothing to do with the vaccines.
That's a relief......for those that have been vaccinated. Btw, did you have your latest booster?
I'm going to leave it another few weeks to extend my immunity a bit. Seems a waste to overlap it with a period of tried & tested natural immunity.
Quote from: David L on November 24, 2022, 11:10:43 AMQuote from: Slim on November 24, 2022, 10:53:29 AMBMJ analysis of excess deaths here
https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2524
Short version (since most people in the comments under Nurse Campbell's video seem to have taken a different view): nothing to do with the vaccines.
That's a relief......for those that have been vaccinated. Btw, did you have your latest booster?
Booster due very soon. Maybe this particular vaccine will increase my chances of a serious adverse outcome by a factor of 100 to, erm, 0.01%, or, should this alarming stat put me off, maybe I could catch another unmitigated dose of the "Rona" and, far more likely, suffer an outcome where I wind up taking up a hospital bed this time.
I reckon I'll play the percentages again...for the fourth time.
Yesterday I had the latest Pfizer vaccine in my left arm and the latest winter flu jab in my right.
Feeling slightly ropey today, but reasonably functional.
Feeling much better today; quite chipper in fact!
Quote from: Matt2112 on November 27, 2022, 10:24:47 AMFeeling much better today; quite chipper in fact!
I was so delighted that was given the Moderna vaccine last time around, but it wiped me out for two days. Hadn't had such a bad reaction before. Perhaps that's a good sign.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on November 27, 2022, 02:22:29 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on November 27, 2022, 10:24:47 AMFeeling much better today; quite chipper in fact!
I was so delighted that was given the Moderna vaccine last time around, but it wiped me out for two days. Hadn't had such a bad reaction before. Perhaps that's a good sign.
Shows it's working. My flu jab last year had me off work for a day, but the Covid jabs had mild effects; just a bit of light-headedness for a few hours. So I suspect the flu vaccine again made me unwell this time round, but who knows. :)
Looks like much of the hoi polloi in China have reached the end of their tether with their government's now clearly untenable zero Covid "strategy".
I wonder where that leaves Christina Pagel and her fellow finger-wagging lockdown fanatics, because her Twitter feed is curiously absent of their usual hot takes at the moment. ::)
Quote from: Matt2112 on November 28, 2022, 02:00:11 PMLooks like much of the hoi polloi in China have reached the end of their tether with their government's now clearly untenable zero Covid "strategy".
I wonder where that leaves Christina Pagel and her fellow finger-wagging lockdown fanatics, because her Twitter feed is curiously absent of their usual hot takes at the moment. ::)
If Jeremy Hunt had been the UK's PM, we may have seen the same outcome here!
Interesting data from Italy
Pfizer boss found to have made misleading comments:
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/technology/science/pfizer-ceo-albert-bourlas-comments-about-childrens-covid-vaccines-found-misleading-by-uk-watchdog/news-story/7ac66d9d5cef20a1ea2a2bdbfeeb77f3
Not reported on the BBC ;D
Pathology of heart damage caused by myocarditis in people found dead at home within 28 days of Covid-19 vaccination
Information on this here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals
Quote from: Slim on December 05, 2022, 07:18:06 AMInformation on this here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals
"this is a very rare condition following vaccination (see the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency's (MHRA) weekly summary for the latest data)"
How can the government determine this is the case? :
" Myocarditis and pericarditis are both inflammatory conditions of the heart. The incidence of myocarditis is difficult to ascertain as most cases are mild and are often not well investigated."
Exactly.
" the long-term consequences of this condition secondary to vaccination are yet unknown"
Hmm, wasn't that the basis on which a lot of us made our decision to pass on the vaccine?
Proper monitoring/investigation required.
Strep A infection continues to take the lives of young children. In some age groups 1-4 years) the prevalence of infection is 5 times pre-pandemic levels.
UKHSA Chief Medical Advisor, Susan Hopkins:
"Rises may be due to reduced immunity from last 3 years"
Yes, as was anticipated. But it's a tiny handful of lives compared to the many thousands of lives saved by the lockdowns that, in this hypothesis, led to reduced immunity.
Quote from: Slim on December 06, 2022, 10:14:49 AMYes, as was anticipated. But it's a tiny handful of lives compared to the many thousands of lives saved by the lockdowns that, in this hypothesis, led to reduced immunity.
I'm fairly certain that history will show more harm was done than good
This is a nice follow-on from the Dr Campbell video I posted on 5th December re: Myocarditis
Had your booster yet, Slim?
Quote from: David L on December 06, 2022, 11:41:53 AMQuote from: Slim on December 06, 2022, 10:14:49 AMYes, as was anticipated. But it's a tiny handful of lives compared to the many thousands of lives saved by the lockdowns that, in this hypothesis, led to reduced immunity.
I'm fairly certain that history will show more harm was done than good
I'm sure it won't.
Quote from: David L on December 06, 2022, 11:50:32 PMThis is a nice follow-on from the Dr Campbell video I posted on 5th December re: Myocarditis
Had your booster yet, Slim?
I think we've already addressed this myocarditis question in post #220 of this thread. Thanks for your interest, I doubt I'll get boosted before February.
Quote from: Slim on December 07, 2022, 10:13:34 AMI think we've already addressed this myocarditis question in post #220 of this thread.
It would appear to be an evolving story
Quote from: Slim on December 07, 2022, 10:13:34 AMQuote from: David L on December 06, 2022, 11:50:32 PMThis is a nice follow-on from the Dr Campbell video I posted on 5th December re: Myocarditis
Had your booster yet, Slim?
I think we've already addressed this myocarditis question in post #220 of this thread. Thanks for your interest, I doubt I'll get boosted before February.
Just be extra careful of that <0.002% risk of something undesirable happening, James. Rooting for you. :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 07, 2022, 01:15:10 PMJust be extra careful of that <0.002% risk of something undesirable happening, James. Rooting for you. :)
Your faith in that statistic is bordering on
religious ;D ;)
Quote from: David L on December 07, 2022, 01:36:32 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on December 07, 2022, 01:15:10 PMJust be extra careful of that <0.002% risk of something undesirable happening, James. Rooting for you. :)
Your faith in that statistic is bordering on religious ;D ;)
"76.4% of statistics are made up".*
* Mine aren't. :)
Covid has made an appearance again in our household. Both my wife and I have tested positive. She feels awful I just have a slight headache to show for it. I was able to get the most recent booster a couple of months ago, she wasn't.
Quote from: dom on December 11, 2022, 05:52:55 PMCovid has made an appearance again in our household. Both my wife and I have tested positive. She feels awful I just have a slight headache to show for it. I was able to get the most recent booster a couple of months ago, she wasn't.
Sorry to hear that. Still vax-free and covid-free since March 2020 :-\
Quote from: dom on December 11, 2022, 05:52:55 PMCovid has made an appearance again in our household. Both my wife and I have tested positive. She feels awful I just have a slight headache to show for it. I was able to get the most recent booster a couple of months ago, she wasn't.
Sorry to hear that Dom. I still wear a mask when I'm shopping but was beginning to feel a bit pessimistic about this situation having never had COVID and being surrounded but the mainly non mask wearing masses all the time. I think I'll just stick with the cautionary approach for now. I hope you both feel better soon and can enjoy the upcoming holiday.
Well - I was looking at the stats yesterday, like I used to every day at one point. The "patients admitted" graph for England has a gently upward trajectory unfortunately but it did dip very pleasingly from a peak at the beginning of October into November. Lower than it was this time last year.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England
Hospital admissions for flu now exceed those for Covid.
This is still no reason for complacency - together they could potentially cause worrying pressures on the health system; fortunately, however, there's currently no reason for any Pagel-esque panic either.
This is quite a long one but very interesting. I made it all the way through and thought it was worth it.
Dr John Campbell talks to Professor Norman Fenton about risk and benefit calculations of medical interventions, such as vaccines. Most interesting is the way in which data from observational studies can be managed and presented to provide wildly different conclusions by treating a small section of the data in a particular way.
It is a fairly deep-dive into stats that were used to inform the decision makers. If you have interest in stats, this one's for you!
It's like we have learned nothing, why wasn't this glaringly obvious for the government? Testing arrivals from China is a no brainier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64130655?at_medium=social&at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=A09187FE-886B-11ED-9FAD-2867FC756850&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned
Meanwhile in the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/european-countries-covid-pandemic-china-ingore-pandemic-lessons/
Quote from: Nick on December 30, 2022, 09:01:56 PMIt's like we have learned nothing, why wasn't this glaringly obvious for the government? Testing arrivals from China is a no brainier.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64130655?at_medium=social&at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=A09187FE-886B-11ED-9FAD-2867FC756850&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned
If it's a no-brainer and glaringly obvious, I wonder why a public health academic interviewed on 5 Live earlier said it wasn't worth doing? His rationale was that it's the same variant that's already circulating here, and while a high proportion of people arriving from China might be infected, their numbers are still tiny compared to people circulating it who already live here.
That said, I don't have a problem with this policy. Can't hurt.
"China's secrecy is also a concern raised by World Health Organization Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, who has called for "more detailed information" from China"
;D ;D ;D Brilliant!
But when it comes to the EU....what does Guy Verhofstadt think? ;D
Possibly the most annoying thing about the pandemic, after the large number of people who have died or become ill of course, is the similarly large number of people giving their thoughts about the technicalities of the disease (or indeed the vaccines) in a matter-of-fact style when they know next to nothing about it.
On Thursday I was out on my bike listening to Talk Radio, listening to Cristo Foufas' show. The whole gist of his show was that there was no possible need for any new restrictions in the UK after the Chinese eased their own restrictions and allowed people to come here. A few of his callers suggested that the virus was turning into the "common cold".
Cristo himself claimed that new variants "inevitably" (or possibly "invariably", I can't quite remember exactly what he said but it was one of the two) are milder than previous variants. Is that really true? I wondered. But certainly a few of his callers shared his conviction.
Well - this morning Dr Simon Clarke, Associate Professor in Cellular Microbiology at Reading University was interviewed on LBC. He stated that the idea that new variants are necessarily less aggressive was "nonsense".
I think there's a certain strand of personality type in human society, a bit neurotic and vulnerable to paranoia - usually politically to the right I must admit, though not representative of right-wing opinion in general - and they're a bit like autistic people in that they can't stand any sort of disruption to their comfort zone. They just want things to be the same all the time. They're often frightened of needles but especially frightened of change; even frightened of people wearing masks in superrmarkets; so much so that they will project their fear onto others and accuse them of "fearmongering", or make up their own science.
So - next time you hear a random member of the public, a Talk Radio presenter or perhaps the Member of Parliament for North West Leicestershire waxing lyrical about the effectiveness of face coverings, genome sequencing, spike proteins or similar - remember, they may well be talking utter bollocks.
Indeed. Not only should there be ongoing vigilance against potential outbreaks that may put intolerable pressure on the NHS - and that applies to flu as well as Covid - but also against the contrarians on one side calling for a dropping of all safeguards, and the medically unqualified academics on the other claiming a Covid strategy should still dictate how society functions.
It's curious how those opposing positions have a common denominator, which is that they are both often used as a stick with which the beat the Government. Now, I'm no Tory, but that element makes me wonder who is actually acting in good faith.
It's a long one, and I'm only 20 minutes in, but already interesting enough to share
Quote from: David L on December 31, 2022, 04:10:16 PM
Already debunked by Dr Susan Oliver. Campbell is making a fortune out of the vulnerable and gullible, and he's probably already taken a few lives to line his own pockets.
(https://i.ibb.co/x3C2S2C/susan-o-221231.png)
https://twitter.com/DrSusanOliver1/status/1609114727036391426
Interesting:
https://www.trialsitenews.com/a/large-studys-disturbing-results-questionable-bivalent-booster-performance-the-greater-the-previous-mrna-doses-the-greater-the-risk-for-infection-b468bbce
Could explain what we've been witnessing in the vaccinated population for a number of months
Quote from: David L on January 01, 2023, 11:39:12 PMInteresting:
https://www.trialsitenews.com/a/large-studys-disturbing-results-questionable-bivalent-booster-performance-the-greater-the-previous-mrna-doses-the-greater-the-risk-for-infection-b468bbce
Could explain what we've been witnessing in the vaccinated population for a number of months
That's a disreputable site that's been exposed for spreading disinformation more than once.
https://healthfeedback.org/outlet/trialsite-news/
Furthermore the author of that poorly-written piece isn't even attributed, which makes me suspect that it's probably been written by an uneducated tin-foiler. The site looks more like a crowd-sourced blog than the "quality journalism" it pretends it is.
Quote from: Slim on January 02, 2023, 09:40:20 PMQuote from: David L on January 01, 2023, 11:39:12 PMInteresting:
https://www.trialsitenews.com/a/large-studys-disturbing-results-questionable-bivalent-booster-performance-the-greater-the-previous-mrna-doses-the-greater-the-risk-for-infection-b468bbce
Could explain what we've been witnessing in the vaccinated population for a number of months
That's a disreputable site that's been exposed for spreading disinformation more than once.
https://healthfeedback.org/outlet/trialsite-news/
Furthermore the author of that poorly-written piece isn't even attributed, which makes me suspect that it's probably been written by an uneducated tin-foiler. The site looks more like a crowd-sourced blog than the "quality journalism" it pretends it is.
Here's the the study paper itself. Of course it's a pre-print and has not been peer reviewed, so they're probably talking bollocks but can't do any harm to be aware of everything out there....good or bad ;D ;)
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full
I enjoyed this particular presentation of it myself - made me smile in places. Love the lazy drawl of Dr Kelly
Booked your bivalent booster yet?
Published 28th December. Sensible, logical....or bollocks? You decide ;)
Concern over vaccine damage finally penetrates MSM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/critics-claim-covid-jabs-causing-heart-problems-do-have-proof/
Malhotra is a seriously disreputable figure, I'm sure you're not taking that seriously.
As for the Telegraph piece, it's behind a paywall. But from what I can gather on Twitter the conclusion is that no, they don't have proof.
Quote from: Slim on January 09, 2023, 11:33:28 PMMalhotra is a seriously disreputable figure, I'm sure you're not taking that seriously.
As for the Telegraph piece, it's behind a paywall. But from what I can gather on Twitter the conclusion is that no, they don't have proof.
I'm not sure whether you watched the video but it is not by Aseem Malhotra. The principle message is the concerning excess death trend in the age group 15 to 44. No conclusions drawn but requires serious investigation.
I also did not read the full Telegraph article but provided it for context. I don't think this can go unaddressed for too much longer. The data needs an explanation. If you have one to proffer.....go for it
I've read the Telegraph piece.
It does look as if these vaccines are raising the risk of myocarditis, slightly, but the risk of getting myocarditis is much increased by catching COVID19
QuoteThe risk alters with age, but is small for all age groups. Those aged 18-29 are most at risk, although there have been just 24 reports of suspected myocarditis or pericarditis for every million first doses of the Pfizer vaccine and 29 per million for a second dose, since the roll-out began. The risk falls with age, with just four reports from a first dose for the over-70s. For the Moderna jab, the highest risk was also in the 18-29 years age group with 61 reports. The risk of myocarditis from Covid-19 itself is around 1,500 in a million. Research suggests that heart inflammation – myocarditis or pericarditis – is no more likely to be triggered by a Covid vaccine than any other vaccine, including the flu jab.
People only seek out the answer which suits their own viewpoint, things are much more nuanced than that.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on January 10, 2023, 11:00:45 AMI've read the Telegraph piece.
It does look as if these vaccines are raising the risk of myocarditis, slightly, but the risk of getting myocarditis is much increased by catching COVID19
QuoteThe risk alters with age, but is small for all age groups. Those aged 18-29 are most at risk, although there have been just 24 reports of suspected myocarditis or pericarditis for every million first doses of the Pfizer vaccine and 29 per million for a second dose, since the roll-out began. The risk falls with age, with just four reports from a first dose for the over-70s. For the Moderna jab, the highest risk was also in the 18-29 years age group with 61 reports. The risk of myocarditis from Covid-19 itself is around 1,500 in a million. Research suggests that heart inflammation – myocarditis or pericarditis – is no more likely to be triggered by a Covid vaccine than any other vaccine, including the flu jab.
People only seek out the answer which suits their own viewpoint, things are much more nuanced than that.
I'm sure that's the case but the unwillingness to investigate and get to the truth is baffling.
Of course, to use 'reports' of myocarditis as evidence is ridiculous. Real evidence of the scale of harm is much more nuanced than that ;)
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on January 10, 2023, 11:00:45 AMI've read the Telegraph piece.
It does look as if these vaccines are raising the risk of myocarditis, slightly, but the risk of getting myocarditis is much increased by catching COVID19
QuoteThe risk alters with age, but is small for all age groups. Those aged 18-29 are most at risk, although there have been just 24 reports of suspected myocarditis or pericarditis for every million first doses of the Pfizer vaccine and 29 per million for a second dose, since the roll-out began. The risk falls with age, with just four reports from a first dose for the over-70s. For the Moderna jab, the highest risk was also in the 18-29 years age group with 61 reports. The risk of myocarditis from Covid-19 itself is around 1,500 in a million. Research suggests that heart inflammation – myocarditis or pericarditis – is no more likely to be triggered by a Covid vaccine than any other vaccine, including the flu jab.
People only seek out the answer which suits their own viewpoint, things are much more nuanced than that.
Thanks Nick, good to know. Reaffirms the New Scientist piece discussed a few pages back, here. (http://betweenthewheels.net/index.php?topic=73.msg7935#msg7935)
Just YouTube taking out the trash, not the New World Order shaking in their boots because someone who "does their own research" is on to them.
Quote from: Slim on January 10, 2023, 08:10:12 PMJust YouTube taking out the trash, not the New World Order shaking in their boots because someone who "does their own research" is on to them.
;D
The data in the Cleveland Clinic study clearly indicated what they stated in their results:
"The risk of COVID-19 also varied by the number of COVID-19 vaccine doses previously received. The higher the number of vaccines previously received, the higher the risk of contracting COVID-19 (Figure 2)."So Dr Kelly's presentation of this finding has been removed from Youtube, as has Dr John Campbell's. However they've not quite censored everyone....yet
Only a matter of time though.
The original study findings are still on the pre-print server (complete with the statement of their findings quoted above). No amendment or retraction...yet. Again, it's probably a matter of time before pressure is applied to the Cleveland Clinic (funding?) to force them to admit they've made an error.
Nice to see the BBC reporting on excess deaths tonight. Bit late to the party though
They've only been removed because it's misinformation, and potentially harmful. I'm glad to hear that Nurse Campbell's video has been removed.
In any case it's a ridiculous discussion because there's no doubt whatever that the vaccines have saved millions of lives. Perhaps you remember the statistics coming out of the US last August, with an epidemic of deaths among the unvaccinated in the redneck states.
To return to an earlier point you made:
Quote from: David L on January 09, 2023, 11:57:19 PMI also did not read the full Telegraph article but provided it for context. I don't think this can go unaddressed for too much longer. The data needs an explanation. If you have one to proffer.....go for it
Thing is - I'm not sure the data really does require an explanation that isn't already apparent or wholly plausible. There's quite a thriving and engaged Flat Earth community out there, but I wouldn't expect Patrick Vallance to organise a team to investigate their suspicions, or their "data".
As you say, the BBC have touched on this and they recognise that there's nothing in the data to support that the vaccines have driven a rise in deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64209221
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland
(https://i.ibb.co/XXVchyz/bbcdata.png)
Why would you want to censor the reporting of a publicly available study's findings? Misinformation? No, just information. Uncomfortable perhaps but most would agree, significant (at least until the findings are discredited).
I suppose one apparent and wholly plausible explanation for the significant increase in excess deaths would be the measures taken during the pandemic, wouldn't it?
The "findings" are still there:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full
I believe you've already conceded that they're "probably talking bollocks" in #225 of this thread.
I can't remember if I even watched the videos that have been removed. I would assume they probably applied some tin-foiler spin to them. I don't think it's very important.
I agree with your final paragraph, but if so it's a small offset compared to the lives saved.
Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2023, 09:58:57 AMThe "findings" are still there:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full
Indeed they are. And still extremely interesting
Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2023, 09:58:57 AMI can't remember if I even watched the videos that have been removed. I would assume they probably applied some tin-foiler spin to them.
They didn't
Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2023, 09:58:57 AMI don't think it's very important.
😁
Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2023, 09:58:57 AMI agree with your final paragraph, but if so it's a small offset compared to the lives saved.
But growing..and at a significant rate
Quote from: Slim on January 09, 2023, 11:33:28 PMMalhotra is a seriously disreputable figure,
Anyone told the BBC? ;D
I'd love a transcript of the director's comms into that presenter's earpiece. Someone got a bollocking, no doubt!
;D
Yes, the BBC has received serious criticism for allowing Malhotra (who by the way wasn't actually invited to talk about the vaccines) to disseminate disinformation.
Patients admitted to hospital with COVID since the start of the pandemic. Two years ago we were just starting to descend from a massive spike; a year ago a smaller spike (though further spikes occurred in April and July '22), this year smaller still.
(https://i.ibb.co/7vdmmVZ/covid-hosp-230118.png)
Obesity linked to the metabolisation of vitamin D. Could be the reason that Covid-19 was such a danger to the obese
https://gizmodo.com/vitamin-d-supplements-weight-bmi-1850003146
Quote from: Slim on January 18, 2023, 08:32:31 PMPatients admitted to hospital with COVID since the start of the pandemic. Two years ago we were just starting to descend from a massive spike; a year ago a smaller spike (though further spikes occurred in April and July '22), this year smaller still.
(https://i.ibb.co/7vdmmVZ/covid-hosp-230118.png)
Only tells half the story IMHO. Those more recent spikes represent mostly patients for whom the virus causes little or no health issues. We are in an endemic phase now. The Omicron strains are the most transmissible but the least pathogenic.
The earlier peaks are not only greater but represent far more serious health implications for those involved.
I think that's probably true to a point, but since these are hospitalisations the health implications must still be serious. It's good news either way.
The absence of the vaccines is probably the biggest reason that spike's so big in early 2021.
Looking at deaths, unambiguously a serious outcome of course, the picture is similar early on but the deaths decline markedly after the vaccine rollout. That already seems to be the case before Omicron appears at the end of 2021.
(https://i.ibb.co/tYmrwWm/deaths230118.png)
I'd certainly rank Russell as the most
amusing purveyor of bollocks
Great fun ;D ;)
Quote from: Slim on January 19, 2023, 12:28:06 AMI think that's probably true to a point, but since these are hospitalisations the health implications must still be serious.
But, aren't the hospitalisations
with Covid not
because of Covid? The reasons for hospitalisation and indeed death may be totally unrelated to a Covid infection.
Have I got that wrong?
Quote from: Slim on January 19, 2023, 12:28:06 AMThe absence of the vaccines is probably the biggest reason that spike's so big in early 2021.
Possibly more elderly and vulnerable. A lot affected by a more pathogenic virus in the first two waves.
And the smaller spikes afterwards could be caused by the presence of the vaccine. The more jabs, the more chance of catching Covid, possibly. Watch this space.
I know both have been much maligned over the last couple of years when it comes to their coverage of the pandemic but this interview is just...interesting (but long!)
For his part, Oliver allows John Campbell to speak without goading him into sensationalism and hyperbole. Campbell comes across as knowledgeable and invested in his profession. The last few minutes where he discussed his thoughts on the current state of the NHS really resonated.
Grifters gonna grift.
It is what they're both doing, unless they're more foolish than I take them for. But more foolish still are those who turn to them for guidance about a pandemic - a historian TV presenter and a nurse - while pouring scorn on virologists, epidemiologists and immunologists.
Anyway what is it the folks in the Tin Foil community always say? Follow the money?
(https://i.ibb.co/pXwRkDP/campbellearns.png)
Good luck to him! He's just bringing information to the public that the MSM choose to ignore (such as the possibility that more jabs = more Covid)
Just a messenger bringing attention to information (a lot if it sourced from the ONS) that prompts further investigation and questioning. Of course, in this new post vaccine world, questions are not welcomed, are they? In this environment the messenger needs shooting
He's bringing harmful disinformation to the public - probably knowingly - to line his own pockets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)
Quote from: Slim on January 19, 2023, 10:54:40 PMHe's bringing harmful disinformation to the public - probably knowingly - to line his own pockets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)
I wonder how much a Wikipedia editor can earn?
Quote from: David L on January 20, 2023, 12:34:43 AMI wonder how much a Wikipedia editor can earn?
Nothing.
Quote from: Slim on January 20, 2023, 10:17:45 AMQuote from: David L on January 20, 2023, 12:34:43 AMI wonder how much a Wikipedia editor can earn?
Nothing.
https://www.freelancer.com/hire/wikipedia?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItMy1lvvV_AIVCdPtCh07ogpSEAAYAyAAEgKGNfD_BwE
Wikipedia doesn't pay those people. Wikipedia editing is an unpaid role. If people can leverage their experience as Wikipedia editors to make money elsewhere, then fine.
Quote from: Slim on January 20, 2023, 11:13:52 AMWikipedia doesn't pay those people. Wikipedia editing is an unpaid role. If people can leverage their experience as Wikipedia editors to make money elsewhere, then fine.
I wasn't suggesting they were paid by Wikipedia ;)
Australian study blames Covid-19 infection on increased cardiac issues. Vaccination reduces non-respiratory issues associated with Covid
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11659977/Australians-dying-fatal-heart-attacks-lingering-impacts-Covid-lockdowns.html
Useful piece here (peer-reviewed, this time)
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.951314/full
An analysis involving 60 million participants shows that the rate of myocarditis is 7x higher in COVID-19 cases than in vaccinated individuals.
Quote from: Slim on January 24, 2023, 10:07:44 PMUseful piece here (peer-reviewed, this time)
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2022.951314/full
An analysis involving 60 million participants shows that the rate of myocarditis is 7x higher in COVID-19 cases than in vaccinated individuals.
Good find.
"Participants: Persons of all ages and sex included in studies that reported cardiac complications in either COVID-19 vaccines or due to COVID-19 infection group."Isn't that an issue though? :-\
Quote from: Slim on January 19, 2023, 06:59:07 PMGrifters gonna grift.
"Grift" is a new one on me. Does it come from the US?
BMJ:
"Industry money saturates the globe's regulators"
https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1538
Quote from: Slim on January 16, 2023, 11:04:34 AMYes, the BBC has received serious criticism for allowing Malhotra (who by the way wasn't actually invited to talk about the vaccines) to disseminate disinformation.
Useful Reuters piece fact-checking the Malhotra comments:
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-excessdeaths/fact-check-no-evidence-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-significant-contributing-factor-to-uks-30000-excess-cardiovascular-deaths-idUSL1N3490M3
(https://i.ibb.co/hFscdjS/reut-fc.png)
Quote from: Slim on January 26, 2023, 02:04:01 PMQuote from: Slim on January 16, 2023, 11:04:34 AMYes, the BBC has received serious criticism for allowing Malhotra (who by the way wasn't actually invited to talk about the vaccines) to disseminate disinformation.
Useful Reuters piece fact-checking the Malhotra comments:
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-excessdeaths/fact-check-no-evidence-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-are-significant-contributing-factor-to-uks-30000-excess-cardiovascular-deaths-idUSL1N3490M3
(https://i.ibb.co/hFscdjS/reut-fc.png)
Quote from: David L on January 26, 2023, 07:34:03 AMBMJ:
"Industry money saturates the globe's regulators"
https://www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1538
;D
Do you think that Professor Openshaw has been paid to compromise his own professional opinion on the BBC and elsewhere? In any case the article you linked there refers to drug regulators, and that's not where scientific consensus arises from.
Quote from: Slim on January 26, 2023, 03:11:17 PMDo you think that Professor Openshaw has been paid to compromise his own professional opinion on the BBC and elsewhere?
Wouldn't be the first ;)
Hmm, has Chris Whitty been telling porkies?
https://twitter.com/esthermcvey1/status/1617874878379565057
Probably the best decision I've ever made regarding my own health:
No, I'm sure that's disinformation. Nurse Campbell is usually debunked quickly now that the credible science community is on to him.
Quote from: Slim on January 30, 2023, 10:19:06 AMNo, I'm sure that's disinformation. Nurse Campbell is usually debunked quickly now that the credible science community is on to him.
Debunked by the
fact checkers?
;)
Yes, legitimate fact checkers.
This is especially for you, Slim ( ;) ).
An interesting and somewhat enlightening interview with the member for NW Leicestershire. I doubt many know that Bridgen studied Biological Sciences at Nottingham University specialising in genetics (coincidentally, given his present situation, his final dissertation was on viruses and viroids).
Obviously Covid is covered (later on) but I had no idea about the part he played over twelve years to get justice for those sub-postmasters that were victims of the Horizon scandal due to its affect on one of his constituents.
One of Campbell's misinformation videos analysed here:
https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/studies-covid-19-vaccination-doesnt-increase-risk-death-misleading-video-europe-excess-death-john-campbell/
Won't stop Campbell making a fortune out of the frightened and gullible, of course.
Booked your booster yet, Slim?
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-people-urged-to-book-booster-appointments-before-vaccine-programme-scaled-down-12802437
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-problem-with-the-bbcs-reporting-on-excess-deaths/
Quote from: David L on February 06, 2023, 08:30:28 PMBooked your booster yet, Slim?
This is about the fourth time you've asked me that. Why do you feel it's important? Do you imagine that something in your stance will have been vindicated if I haven't?
My views on the vaccines are pretty clear in my mind. I don't enjoy them, I'm very confident that they lessen the risk of health complications, but the risk - to me - is very small either way. I do recognise that there was a civic and moral duty to be vaccinated during the crisis period of the pandemic rather than be carried by those who were, but the circumstances are different now.
Quote from: Slim on February 06, 2023, 10:05:20 PMQuote from: David L on February 06, 2023, 08:30:28 PMBooked your booster yet, Slim?
This is about the fourth time you've asked me that. Why do you feel it's important? Do you imagine that something in your stance will have been vindicated if I haven't?
My views on the vaccines are pretty clear in my mind. I don't enjoy them, I'm very confident that they lessen the risk of health complications, but the risk - to me - is very small either way. I do recognise that there was a civic and moral duty to be vaccinated during the crisis period of the pandemic rather than be carried by those who were, but the circumstances are different now.
;D
Quote from: David L on February 07, 2023, 10:43:53 PM"circumstances are different now" ?
It's surely obvious that we're no longer in the crisis phase of the pandemic, isn't it?
Quote from: Slim on February 07, 2023, 10:58:27 PMQuote from: David L on February 07, 2023, 10:43:53 PM"circumstances are different now" ?
It's surely obvious that we're no longer in the crisis phase of the pandemic, isn't it?
That was the opinion of Dr John Campbell quite a few months ago. Are you sure that wasn't 'fact checked' and found to be bollocks?
I think there's an obligation, isn't there? C'mon, still a few weeks before Pfizer's year end, those shots might be on
sale or return. Get it while you can (1 in 800 is not
too bad!)
;)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001393512201982X
Needs 'fact checking' 😉
Post mortem finds evidence of vaccine damage in the heart and brain:
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/10/1651
:-\
No great surprise; people die from the side effects of taking aspirin or paracetomol in rare cases. As always, it's a question of weighing the risk vs the benefit.
BTW I note that the paper doesn't establish the vaccine as the cause of death.
Quote from: Slim on February 16, 2023, 09:48:03 AMNo great surprise; people die from the side effects of taking aspirin or paracetomol in rare cases. As always, it's a question of weighing the risk vs the benefit.
If only that had been possible at the time the vaccines were encouraged/mandated.
What I find encouraging is that via post mortem it seems relatively straightforward to determine whether the pathological changes are caused by the vaccine or the illness.
Quote from: David L on February 16, 2023, 11:33:35 AMQuote from: Slim on February 16, 2023, 09:48:03 AMNo great surprise; people die from the side effects of taking aspirin or paracetomol in rare cases. As always, it's a question of weighing the risk vs the benefit.
If only that had been possible at the time the vaccines were encouraged/mandated.
It was, and I don't think any rational person could fail to be delighted with the ultimate outcome in terms of lives saved and managing the pandemic.
Quote from: Slim on February 16, 2023, 12:15:19 PMQuote from: David L on February 16, 2023, 11:33:35 AMQuote from: Slim on February 16, 2023, 09:48:03 AMNo great surprise; people die from the side effects of taking aspirin or paracetomol in rare cases. As always, it's a question of weighing the risk vs the benefit.
If only that had been possible at the time the vaccines were encouraged/mandated.
It was, and I don't think any rational person could fail to be delighted with the ultimate outcome in terms of lives saved and managing the pandemic.
🧚🏽🧚🏼🧚🏽
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)02465-5/fulltext#section-3d6acba1-acea-4be2-8dc9-b7e14e5b6583
Our findings show that immunity from COVID-19 infection confers substantial protection against infection from pre-omicron variants. By comparison, protection against re-infection from the omicron BA.1 variant was substantially reduced and wanes rapidly over time. Protection against severe disease, although based on scarce data, was maintained at a relatively high level up to 1 year after the initial infection for all variants. Our analysis suggests that the level of protection from past infection by variant and over time is at least equivalent if not greater than that provided by two-dose mRNA vaccines.
Study partly funded by The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. The conclusions are probably not too helpful to them ;D
Interesting, especially if true. But there's an important point to remember - a dose of COVID might give you serious illness or death, instead of medium-term immunity.
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 09:37:35 PMInteresting, especially if true. But there's an important point to remember - a dose of COVID might give you serious illness or death, instead of medium-term immunity.
Given what we've known about virology for years, unsurprising. Natural immunity wilfully ignored for profit, livelihoods lost for no good reason.
Quote from: David L on February 22, 2023, 10:58:59 PMQuote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 09:37:35 PMInteresting, especially if true. But there's an important point to remember - a dose of COVID might give you serious illness or death, instead of medium-term immunity.
Given what we've known about virology for years, unsurprising. Natural immunity wilfully ignored for profit, livelihoods lost for no good reason.
(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 11:44:11 PM(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
Just making a note of the location of this for future reference 😁
It's not personal.
Quote from: Slim on February 23, 2023, 10:58:43 PMIt's not personal.
Nice of someone to lend you theirs. Family member?
I think you've misunderstood the meaning of that post.
Quote from: Slim on February 23, 2023, 11:30:58 PMI think you've misunderstood the meaning of that post.
;D ;)
I know it's behind a paywall but the headline is all you need:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/07/covid-not-deadly-enough-fast-track-vaccines-chris-whitty-advised/
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 11:44:11 PM(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
😆😆😆😉
And from reading the bit the paywall allows you to see that was in February 2020, who knows what other advice was given which could change minds? Don't know if that is mentioned as it's behind a paywall.
Also, why what would the Cummins person think Israel was going to inoculate its people with?
Quoting Fox News doesn't exactly undermine my point; it reinforces it. I haven't looked at the Telegraph piece but would assume it's another example of statistics being misused, or misunderstood, or taken out of proper context.
MSM waking from their slumber?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/we-re-completely-different-people-covid-jab-victims-in-fight-for-justice/ar-AA18DqJi?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=8c322054789d4895dec5d2c33c841c05&ei=11
Heh. Fortunately for them, they're not quite as different as the folks who died because they didn't get the jab.
Quote from: Slim on March 15, 2023, 08:41:09 PMHeh. Fortunately for them, they're not quite as different as the folks who died because they didn't get the jab.
Heh. The biggest difference they have with those folks, of course, is that
they were old or pretty sick to begin with.
Not necessarily. I can think of two people I knew myself who died who weren't old or sick, and would almost certainly would be alive today.
We're getting there
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 11:44:11 PM(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
Saved me a job there.
Slim's MP standing tall in Parliament
So ashamed of that utter clown. Pleased to see that other MPs walked out as soon as the fool started talking. Looking forward to flushing a turd come next polling day.
At least someone has
started to do the necessary investigation. Unlikely to see the light of day anywhere else, anytime soon.......of course
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202302.0350/v1
Truly dystopian
https://nypost.com/2023/03/17/private-federal-censorship-machine-targeted-true-misinformation/
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 11:44:11 PM(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
;)
Well you aren't exactly making a case for that by posting videos published an infamous disinformation source. In any case the cause of excess deaths is not actually a mystery; it's what you get following a pandemic.
Here's a video made by an actual medical doctor, and scientist.
Quote from: David L on March 22, 2023, 08:27:49 PMTruly dystopian
https://nypost.com/2023/03/17/private-federal-censorship-machine-targeted-true-misinformation/
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 11:44:11 PM(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
;)
So - my takeaway from that link is that federal agencies attempted, quite properly and unambiguously in their own national interest, to suppress disinformation about the vaccines.
If you're not keen on the tin foil hat, be less keen to make it fit.
I love the hat, suits you!
We've taken care of everything
The words you read
The songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eye
One for all and all for one
Work together
Common sons
Never need to wonder how or why
Raccoon Dogs
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11959425/Widower-BBC-presenter-died-jab-no-alternative-file-suit-against-AstraZeneca.html#comments
Old news now but:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/15/which-countries-have-halted-use-of-astrazenecas-covid-vaccine
Quote from: David L on March 22, 2023, 08:27:49 PM
Full Senate committee report into origins now released
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/04/18/coronavirus-covid-origin-wuhan-lab-us-senate-report/
Executive summary
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23780771-mwg-executive-summary-april-16-2023
Quote from: Slim on February 22, 2023, 11:44:11 PM(https://i.ibb.co/Xt5XYrN/foiler.jpg)
[/quote]
If you don't like the hat, why keep referring to a known tin-foil grifter like John Campbell? And even Andrew Bridgen now? That's a bit like continually quoting from Joseph Goebbels to refute accusations of being a Nazi.
Quote from: Slim on April 20, 2023, 08:55:10 AMIf you don't like the hat, why keep referring to a known tin-foil grifter like John Campbell? And even Andrew Bridgen now? That's a bit like continually quoting from Joseph Goebbels to refute accusations of being a Nazi.
griftera person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling.
Couldn't possibly use that term in relation to "JVT"(🙄) et al, given the scale of the swindling
;)
Disappointed that Peterson is going down this road, but Scott Jensen is a known COVID disinformation source from the American nutter right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Jensen_(Minnesota_politician)
Quote from: Slim on April 22, 2023, 11:14:42 PMDisappointed that Peterson is going down this road, but Scott Jensen is a known COVID disinformation source from the American nutter right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Jensen_(Minnesota_politician)
Wikipedia ::)
Tell the authorities that page needs updating ;)
Looks like the investigative journalists are finally beginning to wake from their slumber.
In May 2020, Stanford scientists developed a test that could have altered the course of the pandemic response. It was never rolled out
Imagine the implications. I can't for the life of me figure out why that was ignored >:(
https://davidzweig.substack.com/p/the-most-important-test-youve-never
WHO admit that Covid-19 vaccine can induce multiple sclerosis
https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/pt/covidwho-2138820?lang=en
On the other hand, the disease it protects against can and does cause death.
An interesting discussion around the findings of the Cleveland Clinic study. Published earlier this year, it has now been peer reviewed
Ah, this is the study that Bridgen represented on Twitter like this:
(https://i.ibb.co/p3JPPrQ/bridgen-dickhead.png)
A better-informed assessment of the paper is available here :
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-medical/vaccine-study-has-people-worried-being-misinterpreted
(https://i.ibb.co/3cj0xg1/table2fallacy.png)
I wonder how many gullible and vulnerable people the likes of Bridgen and Campbell have killed so far.
I thought The Cleveland Clinic researcher being interviewed made some interesting comments on the study results and vaccine mandates. However, I'm sure you assumed they were not interesting enough for you to watch it yourself.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12160157/Benefits-original-Covid-lockdown-drop-bucket-compared-costs.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/government-secret-unit-covid-lockdown-b2350647.html
>:(
Where are we up to with COVID vaccinations? Is it ongoing? Will it be offered alongside winter 'flu jabs? I still feel a bit odd not wearing a face mask in a busy store these days. I don't think I would ever say no to a booster.
Quote from: David L on June 05, 2023, 04:12:04 PMhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/government-secret-unit-covid-lockdown-b2350647.html
>:(
Political content - will delete along with this reply later, but will raise it in the politics section. Interesting topic and I'm glad you raised it.
Not sure why you post these - I'd hope everyone visiting this thread knows better than to listen to someone who makes a living peddling disinformation for money.
Quote from: Slim on June 09, 2023, 10:40:08 AMNot sure why you post these - I'd hope everyone visiting this thread knows better than to listen to someone who makes a living peddling disinformation for money.
Ad hominem. Debate the Institute of Economic Affairs' study, that's what John Campbell is doing.
Quote from: David L on June 09, 2023, 10:52:17 AMQuote from: Slim on June 09, 2023, 10:40:08 AMNot sure why you post these - I'd hope everyone visiting this thread knows better than to listen to someone who makes a living peddling disinformation for money.
Ad hominem. Debate the Institute of Economic Affairs' study, that's what John Campbell is doing.
I wouldn't debate race relations with Nick Griffin, and I'm certainly not going to bother unpicking John Campbell's bollocks.
Quote from: Slim on June 09, 2023, 12:42:14 PMQuote from: David L on June 09, 2023, 10:52:17 AMQuote from: Slim on June 09, 2023, 10:40:08 AMNot sure why you post these - I'd hope everyone visiting this thread knows better than to listen to someone who makes a living peddling disinformation for money.
Ad hominem. Debate the Institute of Economic Affairs' study, that's what John Campbell is doing.
I wouldn't debate race relations with Nick Griffin, and I'm certainly not going to bother unpicking John Campbell's bollocks.
What about unpicking this bollocks? (Of course, it's not been 'fact checked' yet ;D )
https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/
How did his question "backfire", exactly?
Djokovic didn't know any better than to turn up and mingle with people, with no face covering, at a public event the day after testing positive for COVID, during the pandemic. He's an ignorant, unprincipled fool.
Quote from: Slim on June 13, 2023, 09:30:15 AMHow did his question "backfire", exactly?
Djokovic didn't know any better than to turn up and mingle with people, with no face covering, at a public event the day after testing positive for COVID, during the pandemic. He's an ignorant, unprincipled fool.
GOAT
Quote from: David L on June 13, 2023, 10:22:57 AMQuote from: Slim on June 13, 2023, 09:30:15 AMHow did his question "backfire", exactly?
Djokovic didn't know any better than to turn up and mingle with people, with no face covering, at a public event the day after testing positive for COVID, during the pandemic. He's an ignorant, unprincipled fool.
GOAT
You mean James' post obviously.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on June 13, 2023, 10:37:08 AMQuote from: David L on June 13, 2023, 10:22:57 AMQuote from: Slim on June 13, 2023, 09:30:15 AMHow did his question "backfire", exactly?
Djokovic didn't know any better than to turn up and mingle with people, with no face covering, at a public event the day after testing positive for COVID, during the pandemic. He's an ignorant, unprincipled fool.
GOAT
You mean James' post obviously.
No. Some of the ones defending Boris Johnson are far better ;D ;)
Djokovic is a bit like Chelsea at their peak. Hugely successful but not good to watch.
His breath stinks
An amusing take on Chris Whitty's surprising admissions to the Covid Inquiry:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12262513/Wheelchair-tennis-exec-wins-27K-payout-sports-governing-body-Covid-policy-sacking.html
Hopefully many more will get justice from being treated so unreasonably
Danish study reveals huge variance in occurrences of adverse reaction between batches of Pfizer vaccine
Considering serious adverse reactions to the vaccine were very rare, whereas adverse reactions to the disease it guarded against certainly weren't, that's what I'd call a "non-story".
Nurse Campbell will have made a bit more money out of harming the thick and gullible, that's the story there I think.
The Cabinet Office must hand over all of Boris Johnson's messages, notebooks and diaries to the Covid Inquiry after losing a legal challenge
;D
Quote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 10:15:36 AMThe Cabinet Office must hand over all of Boris Johnson's messages, notebooks and diaries to the Covid Inquiry after losing a legal challenge
;D
Weird that Johnson was happy to release them, yet the cabinet office wanted to keep them secret, spending a lot of public money in the process.
It's a matter for the political section really. But briefly, as I think I mentioned a few weeks ago, I suspect that the government doesn't want Boris' opinion about Rishi to become public knowledge. You might think that Baroness Hallett can be trusted to be discreet, but inevitably someone in our Fifth Column Civil Service will leak them.
Wife tested positive mid week.. I tested positive today although felt a bit grim last couple of days.. wonder what variant were onto now
Quote from: Fishy on July 09, 2023, 10:44:34 AMWife tested positive mid week.. I tested positive today although felt a bit grim last couple of days.. wonder what variant were onto now
The one that the vaccine is ineffective against?
Quote from: David L on July 09, 2023, 04:32:51 PMQuote from: Fishy on July 09, 2023, 10:44:34 AMWife tested positive mid week.. I tested positive today although felt a bit grim last couple of days.. wonder what variant were onto now
The one that the vaccine is ineffective against?
Interesting question, it seems that an Omicron subvariant called "Arcturus" is doing the rounds at the moment.
Some useful info here:
https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1074
Do current covid vaccines protect against XBB.1.16?It's too early to say definitively because no data are available on vaccine efficacy against XBB.1.16 yet. Studies6 have found that the neutralising properties of vaccine induced antibody responses against the closely related XBB and XBB.1 were significantly poorer than against other variants. In India over 70% of the population has had a booster dose.Hybrid immunity in those who have been both vaccinated and previously infected with XBB.1.5 should offer stronger protection. Given the dominance of omicron and XBB.1.5 in many countries today, such immunity is likely to cover most individuals.Is XBB.1.16 a cause for concern?On the whole no, at least not at the moment for those who have been vaccinated (as with any form of covid, the risk is still severe for the unvaccinated).On the one hand, it is showing signs of stronger growth, hence its advantage over other variants in circulation. But this has not so far caused more severe disease.The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control has XBB 1.16 as a "variant under monitoring," its third level (under variant of concern and variant of interest). So do WHO and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.Balloux says that in places that didn't have an XBB.1.5 wave (for example, India or China), XBB.1.16 is expected to "do well." "Conversely, in places like the UK, it is not expected to have much of an impact on case numbers, and even less so on hospitalisations and deaths," he says. "XBB.1.16 is still at low frequency here in the UK, but it may become the next dominant variant in the future."
Man...I was just beginning to become more confident whilst out shopping and as I don't work any longer that's when I mingle most with the human race. I've noticed more young people wearing masks again which makes me wonder if they had tested positive. Responsible behaviour if so but probably not much protection for others in reality. I hope you and your wife feel better soon, Fishy. This has a bit of a "here we go again" feel to it. Roll on the next jab.
" Do current covid vaccines protect against XBB.1.16?
Studies6 have found that the neutralising properties of vaccine induced antibody responses against the closely related XBB and XBB.1 were significantly poorer than against other variants."
;D ;D
Hybrid immunity in those who have been both vaccinated and previously infected with XBB.1.5 should offer stronger protection."
;D ;D
"Is XBB.1.16 a cause for concern?
On the whole no, at least not at the moment for those who have been vaccinated (as with any form of covid, the risk is still severe for the unvaccinated)."
;D ;D
Not sure that is useful tbh
I don't understand your amusement about these points of information? And I can't imagine why a reasonable person wouldn't consider them to be useful.
" Do current covid vaccines protect against XBB.1.16?
Studies6 have found that the neutralising properties of vaccine induced antibody responses against the closely related XBB and XBB.1 were significantly poorer than against other variants."
Ergo: (probably) Not much
"Hybrid immunity in those who have been both vaccinated and previously infected with XBB.1.5 should offer stronger protection."
Of course, you're better protected from natural immunity
"Is XBB.1.16 a cause for concern?
"On the whole no, at least not at the moment for those who have been vaccinated
Contradicts earlier statement
(as with any form of covid, the risk is still severe for the unvaccinated)."
I doubt that statement would stand up to any evidence (certainly requires caveat)
Of course that perspective is from one who is "thick and gullible" so should possibly be dismissed
😉
I feel sorry for you Mr Wasp, to be left with that level of anxiety is no laughing matter. Can I kindly suggest you seek some professional help.. This could last for years
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 09, 2023, 08:09:59 PMMan...I was just beginning to become more confident whilst out shopping and as I don't work any longer that's when I mingle most with the human race. I've noticed more young people wearing masks again which makes me wonder if they had tested positive. Responsible behaviour if so but probably not much protection for others in reality. I hope you and your wife feel better soon, Fishy. This has a bit of a "here we go again" feel to it. Roll on the next jab.
Wife had one hell of a cough for a couple of days.. felt awful although this is the first time she's had it.. recovering now..
This is second time for me .. bit of a cough more congested than anything really.. hopefully I'm over the worst..
Have to say we didn't really do the isolating thing at home .. not that we've been out anywhere so it was odds on I would get it... anyway immune systems boosted for the autumn/ winter hopefully
Makes you wonder though. Some pi$$ed off scientist in some faraway land, drink and gambling problem, wife and kids have left him, about to be arrested due to debt issues, deliberately infects himself with some monstrous developing strain and ta ta mankind. As long as it's other species friendly I suppose.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 10, 2023, 10:59:06 AMMakes you wonder though. Some pi$$ed off scientist in some faraway land, drink and gambling problem, wife and kids have left him, about to be arrested due to debt issues, deliberately infects himself with some monstrous developing strain and ta ta mankind. As long as it's other species friendly I suppose.
You'd have to have a word with the US and tell them to stop funding Gain of Function work in far away labs with poor bio-security to help in that regard, I guess
Quote from: David L on July 10, 2023, 07:16:31 AMOf course that perspective is from one who is "thick and gullible" so should possibly be dismissed
😉
It's the perspective of someone who hasn't actually substantiated their assertions, at least one of which is demonstrably wrong, and should definitely (not probably) be dismissed, yes.
Quote from: Slim on July 10, 2023, 11:40:53 AMQuote from: David L on July 10, 2023, 07:16:31 AMOf course that perspective is from one who is "thick and gullible" so should possibly be dismissed
😉
It's the perspective of someone who hasn't actually substantiated their assertions, at least one of which is demonstrably wrong, and should definitely (not probably) be dismissed, yes.
which one is "demonstrably wrong"? I'd like the opportunity to correct it
"Contradicts earlier statement", but don't bother.
Quote from: Slim on July 10, 2023, 02:19:31 PM"Contradicts earlier statement", but don't bother.
Vaccines "significantly" less effective against variants "closely related to" XBB1.16 but you should not be concerned by XBB1.16 if you've "been vaccinated"
:-\
Help a thickie out here
A welcome development. About time.
I really weep for humanity reading some of the moronic comments under that video. Also from Dr McMillan:
(https://i.ibb.co/GT0Y3n3/vax-tsunami.png)
Just another grifter trying to part the tin foilers from their cash, not a difficult task as Nurse Campbell has demonstrated.
In any case it's utterly perverse to be more concerned about the tiny number of people who may have suffered injury from the vaccines, while being so blithely unconcerned about the fate of the millions at risk from COVID-19 that you wouldn't even support the treatment that has demonstrably saved hundreds of thousands or millions of their lives.
Wife now showing a clear test👍
Quote from: David L on July 10, 2023, 11:11:50 AMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 10, 2023, 10:59:06 AMMakes you wonder though. Some pi$$ed off scientist in some faraway land, drink and gambling problem, wife and kids have left him, about to be arrested due to debt issues, deliberately infects himself with some monstrous developing strain and ta ta mankind. As long as it's other species friendly I suppose.
You'd have to have a word with the US and tell them to stop funding Gain of Function work in far away labs with poor bio-security to help in that regard, I guess
I don't think that would be the thing I found most upsetting if it came to pass.😁
Quote from: Slim on July 11, 2023, 09:26:40 AMIn any case it's utterly perverse to be more concerned about the tiny number of people who may have suffered injury from the vaccines, while being so blithely unconcerned about the fate of the millions at risk from COVID-19 that you wouldn't even support the treatment that has demonstrably saved hundreds of thousands or millions of their lives.
I'm not sure that can be demonstrated in any way, shape or form
We still don't know the long-term effects of the vaccine on health. A large-scale autopsy study on the vaccinated should find some answers. Excess deaths (non-covid related) remain high, most significantly from heart attacks, strokes etc. Any investigations should be welcomed.....by all.
Second negative test in three days with infected throat and fluey feelings. Probably tonsillitis then.
Annoying I'm still showing positive.. it's pretty faint so hopefully by tomorrow I'll be clear...
Quote from: David L on July 11, 2023, 10:55:47 AMQuote from: Slim on July 11, 2023, 09:26:40 AMIn any case it's utterly perverse to be more concerned about the tiny number of people who may have suffered injury from the vaccines, while being so blithely unconcerned about the fate of the millions at risk from COVID-19 that you wouldn't even support the treatment that has demonstrably saved hundreds of thousands or millions of their lives.
I'm not sure that can be demonstrated in any way, shape or form
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/237591/vaccinations-have-prevented-almost-20-million/
https://www.nber.org/digest/202205/estimating-lives-saved-covid-vaccines
Quote from: Fishy on July 14, 2023, 01:37:13 PMAnnoying I'm still showing positive.. it's pretty faint so hopefully by tomorrow I'll be clear...
I started feeling rough on the 12th Sept. Tested positive on the 13th. Didn't test negative until the 24th (although I didn't test on the 23rd). It can take a long time to leave your system.
Quote from: Slim on July 14, 2023, 02:08:22 PMQuote from: Fishy on July 14, 2023, 01:37:13 PMAnnoying I'm still showing positive.. it's pretty faint so hopefully by tomorrow I'll be clear...
I started feeling rough on the 12th Sept. Tested positive on the 13th. Didn't test negative until the 24th (although I didn't test on the 23rd). It can take a long time to leave your system.
Yes first time I had it.. it took 8 days before it was clear...
Quote from: Slim on July 14, 2023, 02:00:16 PMQuote from: David L on July 11, 2023, 10:55:47 AMQuote from: Slim on July 11, 2023, 09:26:40 AMIn any case it's utterly perverse to be more concerned about the tiny number of people who may have suffered injury from the vaccines, while being so blithely unconcerned about the fate of the millions at risk from COVID-19 that you wouldn't even support the treatment that has demonstrably saved hundreds of thousands or millions of their lives.
I'm not sure that can be demonstrated in any way, shape or form
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/237591/vaccinations-have-prevented-almost-20-million/
https://www.nber.org/digest/202205/estimating-lives-saved-covid-vaccines
We know all the shortcomings of 'modelling'.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211005/How-accurate-is-COVID-19-modelling.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7447267/
Quote from: David L on July 14, 2023, 06:38:03 PMQuote from: Slim on July 14, 2023, 02:00:16 PMQuote from: David L on July 11, 2023, 10:55:47 AMQuote from: Slim on July 11, 2023, 09:26:40 AMIn any case it's utterly perverse to be more concerned about the tiny number of people who may have suffered injury from the vaccines, while being so blithely unconcerned about the fate of the millions at risk from COVID-19 that you wouldn't even support the treatment that has demonstrably saved hundreds of thousands or millions of their lives.
I'm not sure that can be demonstrated in any way, shape or form
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/237591/vaccinations-have-prevented-almost-20-million/
https://www.nber.org/digest/202205/estimating-lives-saved-covid-vaccines
We know all the shortcomings of 'modelling'.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211005/How-accurate-is-COVID-19-modelling.aspx
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7447267/
Got anything on the modelling of vaccine effectiveness? Anything specifically to cast doubt on the studies I linked? Because you aren't making a case so far, quite honestly?
Anything to explain the Pandemic of the Unvaccinated?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-burdens-busy-u-s-hospitals
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9420715/
Back from Greece and wife went down with covid within a couple of days after our return. She had it quite badly during the first wave early on. Luckily although rough and coughing constantly she's not as bad. I remain untouched by the virus, probably a mixture of genes and vacinations.
I'm annoyingly still positive with the faintest of lines now.. hopefully clear by tomorrow..
And clear on day 8 same as last time.. consistent at least...
It's estimated that worldwide only around 10% of serious adverse reactions and 2-4% of non-serious adverse reactions are reported. Official government figures
Also a short report on the charity where (some?) of the money generated by this channel is going
So multiply that by ten, or even a hundred, and you're still at a very small fraction of 1% serious outcomes from a Covid vaccine. Straws being clutched there, it strikes me.
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 21, 2023, 06:41:35 PMSo multiply that by ten, or even a hundred, and you're still at a very small fraction of 1% serious outcomes from a Covid vaccine. Straws being clutched there, it strikes me.
Just reporting the facts that not many are aware of. And I think the standout would be how this compares to other vaccines. Worth remembering too, AZ was effectively withdrawn from use
AZ fell out of favour mostly due to public (mis)perception of its risks.
Emerging alternatives then prospered (e.g. Moderna); almost as if there was something similar to market forces at work. :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 22, 2023, 12:26:52 PMAZ fell out of favour mostly due to public (mis)perception of its risks.
Emerging alternatives then prospered (e.g. Moderna); almost as if there was something similar to market forces at work. :)
Who's calculating the risks? No misinterpretation for these families, alas
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p725
Quote from: David L on July 22, 2023, 09:08:36 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on July 22, 2023, 12:26:52 PMAZ fell out of favour mostly due to public (mis)perception of its risks.
Emerging alternatives then prospered (e.g. Moderna); almost as if there was something similar to market forces at work. :)
Who's calculating the risks? No misinterpretation for these families, alas
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p725
"Dozens" are launching a legal challenge.
Come on - how many jabs were administered? What was the net effect? 🤷🏻�♂️
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 23, 2023, 02:19:36 AMQuote from: David L on July 22, 2023, 09:08:36 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on July 22, 2023, 12:26:52 PMAZ fell out of favour mostly due to public (mis)perception of its risks.
Emerging alternatives then prospered (e.g. Moderna); almost as if there was something similar to market forces at work. :)
Who's calculating the risks? No misinterpretation for these families, alas
https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p725
"Dozens" are launching a legal challenge.
Come on - how many jabs were administered? What was the net effect? 🤷🏻�♂️
I suspect we'll never know the answer to that but by the evidence of under reporting, it's certain to be far greater than this case implies.
Also time will tell whether there are any longer-term effects. I'm sure those affected would have like to have given informed consent.
Not related to the AZ vaccine, of course but autopsy evidence has been found of spike-protein in heart tissue that may, or may not, turn out to be a very large red flag (I'm sure there is no need to worry ( :-\ ) but there is still a large number of excess cardiac events, many adding to the excess death toll worldwide)
Still much is unknown
Quote from: David L on July 23, 2023, 08:54:07 AMNot related to the AZ vaccine, of course but autopsy evidence has been found of spike-protein in heart tissue that may, or may not, turn out to be a very large red flag (I'm sure there is no need to worry ( :-\ ) but there is still a large number of excess cardiac events, many adding to the excess death toll worldwide)
Still much is unknown
Talking of large red flags:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/ejhf.2978
A peer-reviewed paper on an active surveillance study carried out by the Department of Cardiology and Cardiovascular Research Institute Basel. The study was industry independent (important)
Brief Title: Myocardial Injury after COVID-19 mRNA-1273 Booster Vaccination
Conclusion
mRNA-1273 vaccine-associated myocardial injury was more common than previously thought, being mild and transient,
and more frequent in women versus men. The study involved 777 participants and found that myocardial injury ocurred in 1 in 35 (2.8%) of those participants.
You may not wish to watch the following, but it might be of interest if you are contemplating having a booster (please don't let
mild and transient deter you)
Again, negligible risk compared - for most people - to the risk of not having the booster. The paper refers specifically to the risk to "young men" - a group which except for unusually vulnerable individuals will not even be offered a booster.
It's good to see that even the adverse effects identified by this piece are mild and transient. The effects of the disease the vaccines defend against are often neither.
Quote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 08:20:32 PMAgain, negligible risk compared - for most people - to the risk of not having the booster. The paper refers specifically to the risk to "young men" - a group which except for unusually vulnerable individuals will not even be offered a booster.
Unless your government is encouraging you to have it (New Zealand).
Isn't the statement above a contradiction?
When are you having yours?
Quote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 09:47:12 PMQuote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 08:20:32 PMAgain, negligible risk compared - for most people - to the risk of not having the booster. The paper refers specifically to the risk to "young men" - a group which except for unusually vulnerable individuals will not even be offered a booster.
Unless your government is encouraging you to have it (New Zealand).
Isn't the statement above a contradiction?
When are you having yours?
A contradiction? Where?
I'll be having mine when it's offered in the Autumn, unless I contract COVID in the meantime and get a free immunity boost.
Quote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 10:46:51 PMQuote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 09:47:12 PMQuote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 08:20:32 PMAgain, negligible risk compared - for most people - to the risk of not having the booster. The paper refers specifically to the risk to "young men" - a group which except for unusually vulnerable individuals will not even be offered a booster.
Unless your government is encouraging you to have it (New Zealand).
Isn't the statement above a contradiction?
When are you having yours?
A contradiction? Where?
I'll be having mine when it's offered in the Autumn, unless I contract COVID in the meantime and get a free immunity boost.
If, as you suggest, the risk/benefit analysis implies it is better, for most, to take the vaccine than not, why will it not be offered to young men? (Unlike in New Zealand (and possibly other countries) where they still appear to be actively seeking out younger people to take the vaccine......for the good of society). Would it be because the emerging facts are that the negative effects were clearly underestimated and the risk of being severely affected by the virus, if you are a young man, are negligible?
So now you appear to accept that catching Covid offers an opportunity to gain (superior) immunity to the virus. I remember when I cited my own natural immunity (to the most pathogenic strain), you berated me for opting to not have the shot. It now seems that rather than locking ourselves away or keeping 2 metres (😆) between us, the healthy among us should have perhaps been attending 'Covid parties'.
If you do not catch Covid between now and the Autumn, may I suggest you leave the bike in the garage for a couple of days after you have the booster (I think Jonners would second that)
;)
Quote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 11:57:14 PMIf, as you suggest, the risk/benefit analysis implies it is better, for most, to take the vaccine than not, why will it not be offered to young men? (Unlike in New Zealand (and possibly other countries) where they still appear to be actively seeking out younger people to take the vaccine......for the good of society). Would it be because the emerging facts are that the negative effects were clearly underestimated and the risk of being severely affected by the virus, if you are a young man, are negligible?
No. It won't be offered to younger people because we're at a wholly different stage in the pandemic and the risk to them, excepting people with underlying health issues, is slight. The claims doing the rounds among the tin-foilers about negative effects being underestimated do not amount to facts.
QuoteSo now you appear to accept that catching Covid offers an opportunity to gain (superior) immunity to the virus. I remember when I cited my own natural immunity (to the most pathogenic strain), you berated me for opting to not have the shot. It now seems that rather than locking ourselves away or keeping 2 metres (😆) between us, the healthy among us should have perhaps been attending 'Covid parties'.
It's well understood that catching COVID offers an immunity from the virus; whether it's inferior or superior I don't honestly know. However it also offers a substantial risk to your health that the vaccines don't. So catching it deliberately, at "covid parties" or elsewhere has two disadvantages compared to being vaccinated. Firstly it's anti-social, because it renders you likely to pass the disease on to others. Secondly it's considerably more likely to lead to serious ill health, including myocarditis, or to death than being vaccinated.
QuoteIf you do not catch Covid between now and the Autumn, may I suggest you leave the bike in the garage for a couple of days after you have the booster (I think Jonners would second that)
If and when the booster programme comes round in the Autumn I suggest you leave your own bike in the garage and get yourself immunised properly (I think Stu would second that. If he could).
Quote from: Slim on July 27, 2023, 12:54:31 AMNo. It won't be offered to younger people because we're at a wholly different stage in the pandemic and the risk to them, excepting people with underlying health issues, is slight.
It was ever thus, of course
Quote from: Slim on July 27, 2023, 12:54:31 AMThe claims doing the rounds among the tin-foilers about negative effects being underestimated do not amount to facts.
Well those 'claims' are official estimations so they 'should' have credibility, I'd have thought. Serious studies (like the above) that find evidence of increased incidences of harm than those reported that came from studies sponsored by manufacturers of vaccines are far less likely to display bias towards the safety of the product for commercial reasons. Nothing 'tin-foil' about that.
Quote from: Slim on July 27, 2023, 12:54:31 AMIt's well understood that catching COVID offers an immunity from the virus; whether it's inferior or superior I don't honestly know.
It's superior.
Quote from: Slim on July 27, 2023, 12:54:31 AMIf and when the booster programme comes round in the Autumn I suggest you leave your own bike in the garage and get yourself immunised properly (I think Stu would second that. If he could).
Not sure how I can get "immunised properly". The most the vaccine ever did was reduce the seriousness of the symptoms in those that were most at risk, especially those with other serious underlying conditions that may be exacerbated by the virus. Stu was in that category, I believe and as such may have been wise to get the jab. I hope you get the booster you have faith in and I hope we both continue to follow this issue as closely as we have up to now. It's proving to be a frank exchange of opinions and I think there will be many more developments to come. Me? I'll continue to trust my own immune system, working well so far.
Hope all here remain in good health
Having reflected on the adversarial nature of my recent exchange here with Slim, I've decided to attempt to distil my thoughts into something more measured (especially for those that have not watched the video, ploughed through the study or have an interest). I've tried to outline what I believe to be some important points but stand to be corrected if anything is misleading.
The results of this latest study reveal something important. The elevated risk of harm to the myocardia (heart muscle) from the booster should raise concerns. The fact that 1 in 35 recipients showed heart-cell damage (via recognised blood -marker testing) would go unnoticed in most that receive the vaccine in the 'real world' scenario. The condition is described in the study as mild and transient. However, there is a time period in which athletic exertion can cause ventricular fibrillation leading to cardiac arrest. Luckily, those in the study that were affected were protected from this possible outcome.
This adverse affect was more prevalent in women than men. Had these results been discovered before this particular vaccine was rolled-out, I think it may not have passed regulation, doctor's may have refused to endorse it or people (under informed consent) may have refused to take it. I believe this incidence of adverse reaction is unheard of in any other vaccine. Of course, if the regulator, the medical community and the MSM continue to ignore the results of studies such as this one, the general public's consent will remain uninformed.
Science is never settled. The endeavour of the scientific community is to continue to explore what we know. Thankfully, there are those that continue to study the safety and efficacy of the current covid vaccines and the findings should improve both parameters for future versions or those used in future pandemics.
Quote from: David L on July 27, 2023, 09:03:47 AMScience is never settled.
True, but until somethings falls
up I will take gravity as truth.
As for Covid: I took the shots, felt a bit oozy like with a flue shot and moved on. I have in no way felt my rights were in any danger, and in truth, was not at all unhappy personally during the whole ordeal. I generally don't like people anyway - as in general population. So many seem to be of the Waldorf & Stedler stature, feeding off of each others frenzy.
Anyway, today is sh!t weather, I am working from home and lunch is still an hour away. Sad state of affairs really, mainly because I am hungry.
if it's any consolation , you're probably not really hungry. It's just ghrelin, the hunger hormone, telling your brain that you are. Human bodies are designed to be capable of going for long periods without food; so if dinner is still a while off tell ghrelin to piss off! ;D
Quote from: dom on July 27, 2023, 12:10:12 PMif it's any consolation , you're probably not really hungry. It's just ghrelin, the hunger hormone, telling your brain that you are. Human bodies are designed to be capable of going for long periods without food; so if dinner is still a while off tell ghrelin to piss off! ;D
shoo, let me enjoy my lunch in peace hormone man ;) I am releasing my inner ghrelin
Or try ghrelin some cheese on toast immediately to stave off the pangs until lunch.😁 Incidentally known as toasted cheese in my neck of the woods, or roasted cheese if you travel eastwards. My English girlfriend hated those descriptions back in the day.
Cheese on toast IS lunch, well dinner here in the Breakfast, Dinner, Tea part of the world :)
I'm starved, off to make some toasted cheese cobs.
Cheese and crackers for me. Missed elevenses - I'm HANGRY!
Cheese on toast over here is called a 'Tosti', usually goes with ham & cheese actually.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/01/lockdown-harmed-emotional-development-almost-half-children/
In my mothers care home again, all inmates bar my mother have it.
Quote from: Nick on August 01, 2023, 06:43:21 PMIn my mothers care home again, all inmates bar my mother have it.
Let's hope it stays that way
The World Health Organisation acknowledge excess deaths:
https://www.who.int/data/stories/global-excess-deaths-associated-with-covid-19-january-2020-december-2021
Quote from: David L link=msg=15555 date=1690917782 >:(Quote from: Nick on August 01, 2023, 06:43:21 PMIn my mothers care home again, all inmates bar my mother have it.
Let's hope it stays that way
Quote from: Nick on August 01, 2023, 06:43:21 PMIn my mothers care home again, all inmates bar my mother have it.
Spoke too soon
Quote from: Nick on August 03, 2023, 03:54:39 PMQuote from: David L link=msg=15555 date=1690917782 >:(Quote from: Nick on August 01, 2023, 06:43:21 PMIn my mothers care home again, all inmates bar my mother have it.
Let's hope it stays that way
Quote from: Nick on August 01, 2023, 06:43:21 PMIn my mothers care home again, all inmates bar my mother have it.
Spoke too soon
Sorry to hear that. I hope she makes a quick recovery
Quote from: David L on August 03, 2023, 10:40:33 AMThe World Health Organisation acknowledge excess deaths:
https://www.who.int/data/stories/global-excess-deaths-associated-with-covid-19-january-2020-december-2021
We've known about the excess deaths for a long time. We also know the highly probable cause: COVID-19.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12370977/The-Covid-Inquiry-never-admit-strong-pandemic-plan-went-wrong-Leftie-scientists-panicky-politicians-writes-PROFESSOR-ROBERT-DINGWALL.html
An interesting development
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66319065
Will you have to pay for yours, Slim?
Looks like the gravy train has hit the buffers
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2023/08/07/covid-vaccine-makers-stocks-crash-to-multiyear-lows-monday-as-sales-keep-sliding/
Quote from: David L on August 08, 2023, 07:39:31 PMAn interesting development
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66319065
Will you have to pay for yours, Slim?
Are you asking if I'm under 65?
Quote from: Slim on August 08, 2023, 09:02:39 PMQuote from: David L on August 08, 2023, 07:39:31 PMAn interesting development
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66319065
Will you have to pay for yours, Slim?
Are you asking if I'm under 65?
Not particularly but I'm wondering if you are still keen enough to foot the cost.....if you are under 65
Well there a few variables to consider:
- Has the risk to myself changed?
- Has the risk to others changed?
- What's the cost?
Clearly the risk to myself and others has changed substantially since the last time I was immunised, but is it low enough to give the vaccine a pass? I don't know but I'll be interested to consider the government's decision in greater detail than I have at the moment.
Quote from: David L on August 08, 2023, 07:39:31 PMAn interesting development
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-66319065
Will you have to pay for yours, Slim?
I'll probably be eligible for a freebie on a medical technicality. Might just take advantage of my free winter flu jab, as that virus is apparently more prevalent again. We'll see.
As I'm on immunosuppressants and also working with a vulnerable group I'd always be entitled to free jabs. Like you Matt will definitely get the autumn flu jab
Quote from: dom on August 09, 2023, 08:14:01 PMAs I'm on immunosuppressants and also working with a vulnerable group I'd always be entitled to free jabs. Like you Matt will definitely get the autumn flu jab
Covid booster?
Quote from: David L on August 09, 2023, 09:02:29 PMQuote from: dom on August 09, 2023, 08:14:01 PMAs I'm on immunosuppressants and also working with a vulnerable group I'd always be entitled to free jabs. Like you Matt will definitely get the autumn flu jab
Covid booster?
As things stand, no. Must admit, my perception on big pharma has changed somewhat over the last year. Along with blood pressure and blood thinner medication since I had the stent last year, I've also been prescribed statins.
Looking into this medication has made me realise that they probably do more harm than good. The cholesterol that lined my arteries was due to my over consumption of sugar and was the result of inflammation which caused the lining of my blood to be plastered in the stuff.
If there's a fire, you wouldn't try to prevent the smoke! That's what statins do. They treat the symptom, not the cause. Cholesterol is actually a vital part of our metabolic system and shouldn't be suppressed.
Due to the over consumption of sugar, and highly processed foods (alcohol and smoking too) we constantly cause damage our bodies.
I'm not really into conspiracies but I think we need to look at the shit put out on supermarket shelves and the resulting medication needed as a result of consuming it. Big pharma and big food companies in league together? Wouldn't surprise me.
Quote from: dom on August 09, 2023, 09:28:00 PMI'm not really into conspiracies but I think we need to look at the shit put out on supermarket shelves and the resulting medication needed as a result of consuming it. Big pharma and big food companies in league together? Wouldn't surprise me.
Slim made a nice hat. I can lend it you when I'm done with it
;D ;)
Pass it on. The feckers won't get me!
Think coincidence, not conspiracy. It's the phrase keeping me almost sane at present.
I should get my 'flu jab as usual this autumn. If I need to pay for the latest covid flavour, I probably will. Make that definitely. It would be relatively cheap I would think.
Me and GB News on the same side?
https://twitter.com/FoodLiesOrg/status/1689113433105371137?t=-pX7dvm7DrtXBdBS4J5g_w&s=19
[quote author =The Picnic Wasp link=msg=15735 date=1691618885]
Think coincidence, not conspiracy.
[/quote] ;D
All described as 'conspiracy theories':
Covid-19 pandemic was the result of a lab-leak
WIV was involved in 'gain of function' research funded by the US
Nordstream pipeline was destroyed by the US
Hunter Biden's laptop
Fear was used to control during the pandemic
Governments collude with social media companies to silence dissenting voices
Nazis battallions were operating in eastern Ukraine on behalf of the Ukranian government
Russian influence in the 2016 US election was bullshit
You can understand why those tin-foil titfers are high fashion at the moment
Some of those probably are no more than conspiracy theories. I personally doubt the lab leak story that you've casually stated as a matter of fact, there. This notion of fear used as an instrument of control is also nonsense, really. Obviously any warning or advice is going to involve an element of fear, unavoidably. You can't help but fear the consequences of drink driving if you're over the limit, for example. But that's not to say that the law is there to control you, except in the sense that it controls your behaviour in a perfectly legitimate way.
Nor has it been established as a matter of fact that the Nord Stream pipeline was destroyed by the US and again, I doubt it. It's right down there with the WTC being destroyed by the US government, although I suppose you believe that as well.
Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2023, 10:11:03 AMSome of those probably are no more than conspiracy theories. I personally doubt the lab leak story that you've casually stated as a matter of fact, there.
No credible alternative exists and emails prove that scientists considered it plausible, initially, until Fauci twisted their arms to put their names to the proximal origin paper.
Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2023, 10:11:03 AMThis notion of fear used as an instrument of control is also nonsense, really.
Did you use "really" in order to moderate that assertion?
Proven by Matt Hancock's Whatsapp messages. Irrefutable
Nordstream will probably never be proven but, again, until evidence to the contrary is found the most likely scenario (motive, capability etc) is that Sleepy carried out his threat
So, only two there that, on the balance of evidence are probable but still to be proven conclusively
Did the US government threaten to destroy the WTC?
Quote from: David L on August 10, 2023, 10:47:31 AMNo credible alternative exists and emails prove that scientists considered it plausible, initially, until Fauci twisted their arms to put their names to the proximal origin paper.
Why do you find the usual explanation, that the virus migrated from another species to humans, to be less than credible? I'm mindful that this explanation has been posited by a few experts, including Chris Smith who is a bona-fide academic virologist as well as being a physician. When was his arm twisted by Fauci? Since you apparently have a bit more expertise than Chris Smith, could you share your research with us?
Otherwise I'm tempted to conclude that this is just more abject bollocks stated as fact.
QuoteDid you use "really" in order to moderate that assertion?
Proven by Matt Hancock's Whatsapp messages. Irrefutable
You obviously missed the caveat in my earlier email. A more reasonable and accurate way to describe Matt Hancock's position is that he wanted to ensure that the general public was aware of the danger of non-complaince with the lockdown restrictions. I'm completely sure that Churchill's government wanted to "frighten the pants" out of the British public into following blackout restrictions, being careful to use bomb shelters and so on. All only right and proper.
I don't agree that the most likely scenario is that the Americans destroyed the Nord Stream pipeline and without bothering to check your other little tin foil conspiracies I'd guess that less than half of them have some sort of basis in truth.
Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2023, 12:52:12 PMQuote from: David L on August 10, 2023, 10:47:31 AMNo credible alternative exists and emails prove that scientists considered it plausible, initially, until Fauci twisted their arms to put their names to the proximal origin paper.
Why do you find the usual explanation, that the virus migrated from another species to humans, to be less than credible? I'm mindful that this explanation has been posited by a few experts, including Chris Smith who is a bona-fide academic virologist as well as being a physician. When was his arm twisted by Fauci? Since you apparently have a bit more expertise than Chris Smith, could you share your research with us?
Otherwise I'm tempted to conclude that this is just more abject bollocks stated as fact.
QuoteDid you use "really" in order to moderate that assertion?
Proven by Matt Hancock's Whatsapp messages. Irrefutable
You obviously missed the caveat in my earlier email. A more reasonable and accurate way to describe Matt Hancock's position is that he wanted to ensure that the general public was aware of the danger of non-complaince with the lockdown restrictions. I'm completely sure that Churchill's government wanted to "frighten the pants" out of the British public into following blackout restrictions, being careful to use bomb shelters and so on. All only right and proper.
I don't agree that the most likely scenario is that the Americans destroyed the Nord Stream pipeline and without bothering to check your other little tin foil conspiracies I'd guess that less than half of them have some sort of basis in truth.
Matt Hancock and Churchill in the same paragraph
😂
Those contemplating may find this useful:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/09/health/covid-variant-eg5/index.html
Get masked up, get your jab. Sage says so
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-covid-variant-eris-masks-rules-b2394433.html
There are no signs that Eris is more dangerous than other variants.
..wonder if this is the variant me and the mrs had back in July.
Quote from: Fishy on August 17, 2023, 08:40:06 AMThere are no signs that Eris is more dangerous than other variants.
You have to look a bit further than the headline for that.
;D
I've noticed a lot of persistent coughing in the shops recently. Especially amongst the children. I suppose kids pick up all kinds of bugs all the time but it's still the school holidays.
Most Scottish schools back next week..
We've certainly been trying to gel hands while on holiday and at home... never know wtf ur touching any more
Quote from: Fishy on August 17, 2023, 10:56:33 AMMost Scottish schools back next week..
Spike just around the corner then.😷
Quote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 08:26:45 AMGet masked up, get your jab. Sage says so
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-covid-variant-eris-masks-rules-b2394433.html
It's actually "Independent Sage", led by the pretty-much-always-wrong-about-everything fear-porn merchant Christina Pagel, who has zero qualifications in virology, immunology etc etc. She's a finger-wagging mathematical modeller with a weird obsession in splurging out worst case scenarios and catastrophist narratives to every media platform available. Think the female Neil Ferguson but with even less credibility.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on August 17, 2023, 10:53:41 AMI've noticed a lot of persistent coughing in the shops recently. Especially amongst the children. I suppose kids pick up all kinds of bugs all the time but it's still the school holidays.
Pollution. Universal ULEZ required
Quote from: Matt2112 on August 17, 2023, 11:54:28 AMQuote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 08:26:45 AMGet masked up, get your jab. Sage says so
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-covid-variant-eris-masks-rules-b2394433.html
It's actually "Independent Sage", led by the pretty-much-always-wrong-about-everything fear-porn merchant Christina Pagel, who has zero qualifications in virology, immunology etc etc. She's a finger-wagging mathematical modeller with a weird obsession in splurging out worst case scenarios and catastrophist narratives to every media platform available. Think the female Neil Ferguson but with even less credibility.
Were the 'other' SAGE not independent?
Or did they exist solely to justify government policy?
Quote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 12:26:50 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on August 17, 2023, 10:53:41 AMI've noticed a lot of persistent coughing in the shops recently. Especially amongst the children. I suppose kids pick up all kinds of bugs all the time but it's still the school holidays.
Pollution. Universal ULEZ required
Doubt it. Lots of lichen on the trees around these parts.
Quote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 12:51:09 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on August 17, 2023, 11:54:28 AMQuote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 08:26:45 AMGet masked up, get your jab. Sage says so
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-covid-variant-eris-masks-rules-b2394433.html
It's actually "Independent Sage", led by the pretty-much-always-wrong-about-everything fear-porn merchant Christina Pagel, who has zero qualifications in virology, immunology etc etc. She's a finger-wagging mathematical modeller with a weird obsession in splurging out worst case scenarios and catastrophist narratives to every media platform available. Think the female Neil Ferguson but with even less credibility.
Were the 'other' SAGE not independent?
Or did they exist solely to justify government policy?
They just appeared to be the Lite version of Pagel's lot much of the time.
Quote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 12:51:09 PMWere the 'other' SAGE not independent?
Or did they exist solely to justify government policy?
They exist (present tense) to inform government policy.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies
Quote from: Slim on August 17, 2023, 07:49:47 PMQuote from: David L on August 17, 2023, 12:51:09 PMWere the 'other' SAGE not independent?
Or did they exist solely to justify government policy?
They exist (present tense) to inform government policy.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies
That was a shame
In the credible analysis that exists separately from the fringe / crank opinions you're fond of, they did a very valuable job and saved countless lives.
Quote from: Slim on August 08, 2023, 09:38:05 PMClearly the risk to myself and others has changed substantially since the last time I was immunised, but is it low enough to give the vaccine a pass? I don't know but I'll be interested to consider the government's decision in greater detail than I have at the moment.
If you were in the US, the government would be recommending that you get your autumn booster. I wonder if the US science is different to the UK science?
An interesting clip from the Senate Health, Labour and Pensions Committee hearing where Moderna CEO admits to providing the NIH with $400m last year.
Well done to that well-known crank, Rand Paul
Here's a little quiz:
Moderna has pad the NIH $400m. Is it because:
- they partly used government-funded research to develop life-saving vaccines, and they've been required to make a payment under a licence agreement, or
- they've bribed the US government to force an unnecessary and hazardous medical intervention on the entire population
Quote from: Slim on August 19, 2023, 09:39:42 AMHere's a little quiz:
l
Moderna has pad the NIH $400m. Is it because:
- they partly used government-funded research to develop life-saving vaccines, and they've been required to make a payment under a licence agreement, or
- they've bribed the US government to force an unnecessary and hazardous medical intervention on the entire population
Whatever, it's sure to be the taxpayer that gets shafted ultimately - as discussed, rather amusingly, here:
A quiz for you, Slim. Autumn booster? Because:
- the CDC are recommending you have it, or
- the JCVI believe it's not necessary for you to have it
or have you already chosen to ignore the advice of one of those organisations?
:-\
furphy
/ˈfəːfi/
nounINFORMAL•AUSTRALIAN
a rumour or story, especially one that is untrue or absurd.
Quote from: David L on August 28, 2023, 10:40:44 PMA quiz for you, Slim. Autumn booster? Because:
- the CDC are recommending you have it, or
- the JCVI believe it's not necessary for you to have it
or have you already chosen to ignore the advice of one of those organisations?
The CDC haven't recommended that I have it. I don't live in the USA. Furthermore, the JCVI haven't advised anyone not to get an Autumn booster, so I wouldn't be ignoring anyone's advice if I did.
I'd like you to stop repeatedly asking about my own personal choice with respect to the vaccines. Furthermore, I don't have time to argue with tin foilers or take part in the proverbial chess game against pigeons. If this thread becomes nothing more than a running soap opera of conspiracy theories and misinformation, I'll either lock it or start deleting posts.
Quote from: Slim on August 30, 2023, 09:41:47 AMQuote from: David L on August 28, 2023, 10:40:44 PMA quiz for you, Slim. Autumn booster? Because:
- the CDC are recommending you have it, or
- the JCVI believe it's not necessary for you to have it
or have you already chosen to ignore the advice of one of those organisations?
The CDC haven't recommended that I have it. I don't live in the USA. Furthermore, the JCVI haven't advised anyone not to get an Autumn booster, so I wouldn't be ignoring anyone's advice if I did.
I'd like you to stop repeatedly asking about my own personal choice with respect to the vaccines. Furthermore, I don't have time to argue with tin foilers or take part in the proverbial chess game against pigeons. If this thread becomes nothing more than a running soap opera of conspiracy theories and misinformation, I'll either lock it or start deleting posts.
Is it 'personal choice' now?
I'm sure that being on the horns of a dilemma can make one grouchy
;)
Deleting posts is the way these discussions are usually controlled, I believe
;)
Quote from: David L on August 30, 2023, 10:21:36 AMIs it 'personal choice' now?
Apparently it isn't. I've just heard that this year, if you're outside one of the risk groups, it won't be possible to get the vaccine privately.
Living in Scotland I think I'll still be offered 'flu and covid vaccinations as I have an underlying health issue. I haven't received an appointment date as yet, but I'm hoping that's because the research indicates that most benefit is gained within the first three months, therefore those eligible are being called later to provide the most over winter protection.
Quote from: Slim on September 01, 2023, 01:31:48 PMQuote from: David L on August 30, 2023, 10:21:36 AMIs it 'personal choice' now?
Apparently it isn't. I've just heard that this year, if you're outside one of the risk groups, it won't be possible to get the vaccine privately.
Disappointed? Are you wishing you were living in the US?
Quote from: David L on September 01, 2023, 04:26:17 PMDisappointed? Are you wishing you were living in the US?
A little disappointed, yes. However in my view there are many reasons to prefer not to live in the US, and for me these outweigh having my vaccine choice negated in one particular autumn.
Invitation for Covid and flu jabs just arrived.
Technically I'm in a clinical risk group, even though my "cerebrovascular accident" - almost 8 years ago now - was described at the time as statistically "almost freakish". And nowadays my risk is even smaller as I take common meds and had an occluder inserted into my atrial septum. 😏
But I'll probably just have both vaccines as usual.
Had my flu jab courtesy of being an nhs bod on Monday.. no ill effects at all apart from a slightly achy upper arm..
What an absolute, toxic bell end that man is.
sniff? sniff?.............mmmmm, coffee! ;D
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/china-lab-suspected-of-covid-leak-stripped-of-us-funding-for-violating-biosafety-rules/ar-AA1hbr33?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=890aab662dc14a4788e4872aa6523ab7&ei=42
Oops!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12558155/Wonder-Covid-drug-cause-virus-mutate-uncontrollably-sparking-fears-spawn-new-variant.html
God almighty.
"The antiviral, made by US pharma giant Merck, protects against severe illness by forcing mutations in the virus that fatally weaken it"
What could possibly go wrong?
Long covd? Cobblers :)
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/long-covid-risks-are-distorted-by-flawed-research-study-finds-12969777
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12562479/Covid-vaccines-vaginal-bleeding-women-period.html
"Experts are not entirely sure why changes in menstruation occur, but some believe the vaccine causes some of the body's tissue to become inflamed, causing changes to the lining of the uterus and hormone levels throughout the body"
"Vaginal bleeding in postmenopausal women can be a sign of a serious condition, such as cancer, and more women in this group than the others sought medical care after experiencing unexplained bleeding - 30.6 percent"
Interesting. Important to keep it in perspective, though. I found this (emphasis mine):
Reports of menstrual changes after covid-19 vaccination have been made for both mRNA and adenovirus-vectored vaccines, she adds, suggesting that, if there is a connection, it is likely to be a result of the immune response to vaccination, rather than to a specific vaccine component.
Indeed, the menstrual cycle may be affected by the body's immune response to the virus itself, with one study showing menstrual disruption in around a quarter of women infected with SARS-CoV2.
https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/link-between-menstrual-changes-after-covid-19-vaccination-is-plausible-and-should-be-investigated/
So as is the case with heart conditions, it's likely (it seems to me) that the overall effect of the vaccine programme is to reduce this sort of thing, not to exacerbate it.
On the last paragraph in your post, it's important to remember the distinction between a "sign" and a "cause".
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12564233/amp/Lockdown-caused-long-lasting-era-defining-harm-children-preventable-experts-tell-Government-damning-report.html
::)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1816958/covid-lockdowns-risk-protection-vaccines/amp
Good advice that, I strongly suspect.
More journalism from the mail (to be found elsewhere also)!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12611331/amp/New-type-heart-disease-ckm-cardiovascular-kidney-metabolic.html
Not the type caused by the covid jab, by any chance?
:-\ :D
What draws you to that conclusion? Heart issues largely caused by lifestyle choices (how much people eat and how active they are) has nothing to do with Covid whatsoever
Quote from: dom on October 10, 2023, 10:19:03 AMWhat draws you to that conclusion? Heart issues largely caused by lifestyle choices (how much people eat and how active they are) has nothing to do with Covid whatsoever
Heart issues have been identified and acknowledged with Covid vaccines. Large increase in stroke, atrial fibrillation and cardiac arrests since the start of the vaccination program across all age groups. Hundreds of millions of vaccinations, possibly hundreds of thousands of heart issues
To suspect a link is not illogical. I think they could just be 'preparing the ground'
Oh, and I'm a deeply cynical person....can't help it (it's served me well over the years 😁😉)
Quote from: David L on October 10, 2023, 10:31:15 AMQuote from: dom on October 10, 2023, 10:19:03 AMWhat draws you to that conclusion? Heart issues largely caused by lifestyle choices (how much people eat and how active they are) has nothing to do with Covid whatsoever
Heart issues have been identified and acknowledged with Covid vaccines. Large increase in stroke, atrial fibrillation and cardiac arrests since the start of the vaccination program across all age groups. Hundreds of millions of vaccinations, possibly hundreds of thousands of heart issues
To suspect a link is not illogical. I think they could just be 'preparing the ground'
Oh, and I'm a deeply cynical person....can't help it (it's served me well over the years 😁😉)
What evidence is there that it's the covid vaccine causing the heart issues, rather than Covid itself. It has been established that Covid 19 can affect the heart as well as the respiratory system
Quote from: David L on October 10, 2023, 10:31:15 AMQuote from: dom on October 10, 2023, 10:19:03 AMWhat draws you to that conclusion? Heart issues largely caused by lifestyle choices (how much people eat and how active they are) has nothing to do with Covid whatsoever
Heart issues have been identified and acknowledged with Covid vaccines. Large increase in stroke, atrial fibrillation and cardiac arrests since the start of the vaccination program across all age groups.
The heart issues that have been identified as related to the vaccines have been statistically insignificant and usually very mild, and the large increase in the ailments you describe in your second sentence are actually a consequence of the disease it guards against.
You could do with being a bit more cynical, in some respects.
Where are we up to after two years of evaluating the chances of severely adverse vaccine outcomes? 0.001%...?
I'm not trembling quite yet.
Quote from: Matt2112 on October 10, 2023, 12:37:53 PMWhere are we up to after two years of evaluating the chances of severely adverse vaccine outcomes? 0.001%...?
I'm not trembling quite yet.
Less than 10% of adverse events recorded
"For example, FDA believes that its system for gathering information about ADEs, the Adverse Event Reporting System (AERS), receives reports for only about 1 to 10 percent of all ADEs".
Define "adverse" (as opposed to "severe").
Quote from: Matt2112 on October 10, 2023, 01:37:23 PMDefine "adverse" (as opposed to "severe").
I'm sure you're not
really interested :D ;)
Just happened upon this interesting piece on Talk TV ( ::) ;D ). A discussion on excess deaths involving a statistician. He seems to know his onions and gives an explanation as to why we are suffering from continuing excess deaths and why the majority are unlikely to be vaccine or covid related. However, he concedes there is an excess among a fairly young cohort that needs investigating. Sweden, where they have a highly vaccinated population but are not suffering a similar increase in excess deaths could help provide some answers (as it did with the issue of lockdowns)
Moderna (and flu jab) done this morning.
The potential of side effects (I had some light-headedness from previous Covid jabs) gives me the perfect excuse to spend the day with my feet up. ;)
Bit of a sex pest but still funny
He refers to "the Wuhan lab leak" as though it were a fact rather than a conspiracy theory, and the most liked comment under his video argues that "The vaccine was not brought in for COVID, COVID was brought in for the vaccine".
The Internet promised so much, but it's led to thousands of people buying into idiotic ideas. Facebook is infested now with people who don't believe the Moon landings happened, don't believe the ISS is real and in some cases genuinely think the Earth is flat.
I wonder if there should be some sort of intelligence test you have to pass before you can post anything on the World Wide Web. It should be read-only for stupid people, for their own protection.
Quote from: David L on October 10, 2023, 07:44:49 PMJust happened upon this interesting piece on Talk TV ( ::) ;D ). A discussion on excess deaths involving a statistician. He seems to know his onions and gives an explanation as to why we are suffering from continuing excess deaths and why the majority are unlikely to be vaccine or covid related. However, he concedes there is an excess among a fairly young cohort that needs investigating. Sweden, where they have a highly vaccinated population but are not suffering a similar increase in excess deaths could help provide some answers (as it did with the issue of lockdowns)
Just spotted wonder what "onchologists" are?
Quote from: dom on November 03, 2023, 02:41:32 PMQuote from: David L on October 10, 2023, 07:44:49 PMJust happened upon this interesting piece on Talk TV ( ::) ;D ). A discussion on excess deaths involving a statistician. He seems to know his onions and gives an explanation as to why we are suffering from continuing excess deaths and why the majority are unlikely to be vaccine or covid related. However, he concedes there is an excess among a fairly young cohort that needs investigating. Sweden, where they have a highly vaccinated population but are not suffering a similar increase in excess deaths could help provide some answers (as it did with the issue of lockdowns)
Just spotted wonder what "onchologists" are?
Dyslexia....probably
Researchers at Yale identify a post-vaccine syndrome. Some may recognise some of the symptoms. All may recognise none. Interesting nevertheless
This is an awful story. In 2021 a man named Shaul Goncalves, his mother (65 years old) and his dad (73) all died in hospital with COVID, within seven days of each other.
By now you've probably guessed what they had in common apart from being members of the same immediate family: they'd refused the vaccines.
So Shaul's brother Francis, who had been vaccinated and consequently was still alive shares their story online, to encourage people not to dodge the jabs.
Then in the various social media he gets accused of making it up or of working for the government. And he gets death threats, and threats to harm his family.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67559629
That is awful. We are really living in a terribly polarised society.
Went down with cold symptoms on Saturday. By yesterday, I felt poorly enough to come home from work. Streaming eyes, sneezing, runny nose and a bit achy. I did a covid test - negative. Symptoms not really improving yet so could be a mild flu thing. Looks like it will take at least a week to get back to normal.........sniff!
Hope you feel better soon. Better now than over the Christmas hols!
Yes, if you've got to catch something at all it's very good timing. Feet up, plenty of fluids and paracetamol should do the trick.
Quote from: David L on December 05, 2023, 08:25:04 PMWent down with cold symptoms on Saturday. By yesterday, I felt poorly enough to come home from work. Streaming eyes, sneezing, runny nose and a bit achy. I did a covid test - negative. Symptoms not really improving yet so could be a mild flu thing. Looks like it will take at least a week to get back to normal.........sniff!
It's Covid!
I had a slightly sore throat when I got up Saturday and felt a little bit like I was getting a cold. Perhaps, ill-advisedly in hindsight, I decided to meet up with two mates to go to the much-anticipated Rushed gig at The Northcourt, Abingdon.
Well, tonight, Bob contacted me to let me know he'd been off work since Tuesday and had tested positive for Covid. Uh-oh! So a second test tonight (after Tuesday's negative) and, yes, the faintest of lines means I've got the lurgy.
It explains why, after five days it hasn't improved much. Still, probably better than if I'd caught a dose of old fashioned flu, that may have knocked me up good and proper. And it means I should have decent covid immunity over Xmas, hopefully lasting until after our snowboard holiday in March (which happens to be the first since March 2020....where we caught a nice dose of the first version of the Wuhan bio-weapon)
The one symptom that I've not seen advertised has been an extremely windy bottom. I could drive a turbine with my farts at the moment!
Well, that's made my mind up about not buying a ticket for Geddy. I avoided a poor old guy in Aldi last night as he coughed and spluttered his way around the store. Numbers are probably on the rise so I think I'll restrict my visits to busy places.
Of course, I should have said I first caught Covid in March 2920 not 2019. If that had been the case, I'd have had to have been working in the lab! Corrected
Since you've implied that the virus originated in a lab a couple of times recently, some balance from a piece in the BMJ, published in July this year.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Qgdss6/bmj-piece.png)
https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p1556
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 09:50:13 AMSince you've implied that the virus originated in a lab a couple of times recently, some balance from a piece in the BMJ, published in July this year.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Qgdss6/bmj-piece.png)
https://www.bmj.com/content/382/bmj.p1556
As they used to say on the TV programme:
"Bluff"
;D
I'm not sure about this. From my rudimentary knowledge of illnesses, they seem to follow a fairly regular pattern when an individual becomes infected. The seemingly random nature of COVID seems to point towards some kind of crack-handed, genetic tinkering. Almost as if the virus had to evolve from an unstable man-made structure into something which could survive in the natural world. The consequences of proving liability are probably too grave an issue and best swept under the rug.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 09, 2023, 11:42:29 AMI'm not sure about this. From my rudimentary knowledge of illnesses, they seem to follow a fairly regular pattern when an individual becomes infected. The seemingly random nature of COVID seems to point towards some kind of crack-handed, genetic tinkering. Almost as if the virus had to evolve from an unstable man-made structure into something which could survive in the natural world. The consequences of proving liability are probably too grave an issue and best swept under the rug.
Unless it's important that this doesn't happen again. Unfortunately, it isn't
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 09, 2023, 11:42:29 AMI'm not sure about this. From my rudimentary knowledge of illnesses, they seem to follow a fairly regular pattern when an individual becomes infected. The seemingly random nature of COVID seems to point towards some kind of crack-handed, genetic tinkering. Almost as if the virus had to evolve from an unstable man-made structure into something which could survive in the natural world.
It's reasonable to have an opinion when it is, after all, a matter of conjecture. But I have to assume that the various infectious disease experts and academic virologists had thought about that as well, and it's notable that they tend to reject the "man-made" hypothesis.
In any case I don't see the "random" nature of the virus as very surprising; for many years (millenia?) the flu virus (for example) has evolved and changed unpredictably from year to year.
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 12:40:24 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 09, 2023, 11:42:29 AMI'm not sure about this. From my rudimentary knowledge of illnesses, they seem to follow a fairly regular pattern when an individual becomes infected. The seemingly random nature of COVID seems to point towards some kind of crack-handed, genetic tinkering. Almost as if the virus had to evolve from an unstable man-made structure into something which could survive in the natural world.
It's reasonable to have an opinion when it is, after all, a matter of conjecture. But I have to assume that the various infectious disease experts and academic virologists had thought about that as well, and it's notable that they tend to reject the "man-made" hypothesis.
Worth remembering the
various infectious disease experts and academic virologists are not
all the infectious disease experts and academic virologists.
Also worth remembering that the opinions of many experts in this field were censored (thus limiting conjecture) by governments around the world, seemingly in collusion
Well firstly I don't agree that there seems to be a "collusion" between various governments to suppress information, that's pure conspiracy theory territory. Tin foil hat stuff.
I'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
I'm not sure there's a consensus, among non-censored experts, that the lab leak hypothesis is unlikely. Even in that community though it's a minority opinion so stating it as a fact, as you have, is something like religious "thinking", ie choosing to believe what you find most appealling.
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMWell firstly I don't agree that there seems to be a "collusion" between various governments to suppress information, that's pure conspiracy theory territory. Tin foil hat stuff.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/27/covid-monitoring-disinformation-unit-us-government-online/
If JHB was subjected to this, I'm certain others, including experts in their field, that critiqued the government narrative were
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMI'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/how-do-you-stop-fake-news-about-covid-not-by-silencing-scientists-who-ask-difficult-questions
https://truthtalk.uk/2022/mass-censorship-twitter-bans-renowned-diagnostic-pathologist-dr-clare-craig/
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115286/documents/HHRG-118-GO00-20230208-SD011.pdf
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
Quote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:03:29 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMWell firstly I don't agree that there seems to be a "collusion" between various governments to suppress information, that's pure conspiracy theory territory. Tin foil hat stuff.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/27/covid-monitoring-disinformation-unit-us-government-online/
If JHB was subjected to this, I'm certain others, including experts in their field, that critiqued the government narrative were
OK. So governments collaborated to raise awareness about sources of disinformation like JHB. I'm pleased to hear it, and it's a million miles from the suppression of legitimate expert opinion.
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:24:26 PMQuote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:03:29 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMWell firstly I don't agree that there seems to be a "collusion" between various governments to suppress information, that's pure conspiracy theory territory. Tin foil hat stuff.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/27/covid-monitoring-disinformation-unit-us-government-online/
If JHB was subjected to this, I'm certain others, including experts in their field, that critiqued the government narrative were
OK. So governments collaborated to raise awareness about sources of disinformation like JHB. I'm pleased to hear it, and it's a million miles from the suppression of legitimate expert opinion.
;D
Quote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:10:26 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMI'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/how-do-you-stop-fake-news-about-covid-not-by-silencing-scientists-who-ask-difficult-questions
https://truthtalk.uk/2022/mass-censorship-twitter-bans-renowned-diagnostic-pathologist-dr-clare-craig/
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115286/documents/HHRG-118-GO00-20230208-SD011.pdf
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The first three are Twitter bans. Which of the "governments around the world" that you refer to in #551 owns Twitter or insisted that they do this?
The last one was done by Google, and I don't doubt in good faith. Which of the "governments around the world" made them do this, please?
Quote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 01:16:10 PMAlso worth remembering that the opinions of many experts in this field were censored (thus limiting conjecture) by governments around the world, seemingly in collusion.
QFT
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:30:19 PMQuote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:10:26 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMI'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/how-do-you-stop-fake-news-about-covid-not-by-silencing-scientists-who-ask-difficult-questions
https://truthtalk.uk/2022/mass-censorship-twitter-bans-renowned-diagnostic-pathologist-dr-clare-craig/
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115286/documents/HHRG-118-GO00-20230208-SD011.pdf
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The first three are Twitter bans. Which of the "governments around the world" that you refer to in #551 owns Twitter or insisted that they do this?
https://reason.com/2023/01/02/under-government-pressure-twitter-suppressed-truthful-speech-about-covid-19/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-covid-censorship-machine-social-media-facebook-meta-executive-rob-flaherty-free-speech-google-11673203704
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/04/joe-biden-white-house-accused-covid-vaccine-censorship/
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:30:19 PMQuote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:10:26 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMI'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/how-do-you-stop-fake-news-about-covid-not-by-silencing-scientists-who-ask-difficult-questions
https://truthtalk.uk/2022/mass-censorship-twitter-bans-renowned-diagnostic-pathologist-dr-clare-craig/
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115286/documents/HHRG-118-GO00-20230208-SD011.pdf
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The last one was done by Google, and I don't doubt in good faith. Which of the "governments around the world" made them do this, please?
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/white-house-worked-youtube-censor-covid-19-vaccine-misinformation-house-judiciary-committee
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:24:26 PMOK. So governments collaborated to raise awareness about sources of disinformation like JHB. I'm pleased to hear it, and it's a million miles from the suppression of legitimate expert opinion.
But they got that wrong, didn't they? :D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12677877/Cabinet-Office-forced-apologise-Julia-Hartley-Brewer-government-documents-unlawfully-TalkTV-presenter-known-vaccine-sceptic.html
Quote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 05:47:18 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:24:26 PMOK. So governments collaborated to raise awareness about sources of disinformation like JHB. I'm pleased to hear it, and it's a million miles from the suppression of legitimate expert opinion.
But they got that wrong, didn't they? :D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12677877/Cabinet-Office-forced-apologise-Julia-Hartley-Brewer-government-documents-unlawfully-TalkTV-presenter-known-vaccine-sceptic.html
Yes, they thought she was a vaccine sceptic, when to her credit, she wasn't.
That doesn't support your point that legitimate export opinion was suppressed, one tiny iota.
Quote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 05:34:30 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:30:19 PMQuote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:10:26 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMI'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/how-do-you-stop-fake-news-about-covid-not-by-silencing-scientists-who-ask-difficult-questions
https://truthtalk.uk/2022/mass-censorship-twitter-bans-renowned-diagnostic-pathologist-dr-clare-craig/
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115286/documents/HHRG-118-GO00-20230208-SD011.pdf
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The first three are Twitter bans. Which of the "governments around the world" that you refer to in #551 owns Twitter or insisted that they do this?
https://reason.com/2023/01/02/under-government-pressure-twitter-suppressed-truthful-speech-about-covid-19/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-covid-censorship-machine-social-media-facebook-meta-executive-rob-flaherty-free-speech-google-11673203704
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/04/joe-biden-white-house-accused-covid-vaccine-censorship/
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 04:30:19 PMQuote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 02:10:26 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 01:35:55 PMI'd be interested to see some (credible) evidence of the various experts being censored in the Western democratic countries. In other countries that goes on all the time, I agree.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2022/mar/29/how-do-you-stop-fake-news-about-covid-not-by-silencing-scientists-who-ask-difficult-questions
https://truthtalk.uk/2022/mass-censorship-twitter-bans-renowned-diagnostic-pathologist-dr-clare-craig/
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/115286/documents/HHRG-118-GO00-20230208-SD011.pdf
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The last one was done by Google, and I don't doubt in good faith. Which of the "governments around the world" made them do this, please?
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/white-house-worked-youtube-censor-covid-19-vaccine-misinformation-house-judiciary-committee
What you've shown there is that the US government worked with YouTube do target disinformation. Given that this was in the interest of the public health, it's the least the American public should expect.
What you haven't shown is that legitimate, credible expert opinion was censored by any government, still less that different governments "colluded" to do this.
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 12:40:24 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 09, 2023, 11:42:29 AMI'm not sure about this. From my rudimentary knowledge of illnesses, they seem to follow a fairly regular pattern when an individual becomes infected. The seemingly random nature of COVID seems to point towards some kind of crack-handed, genetic tinkering. Almost as if the virus had to evolve from an unstable man-made structure into something which could survive in the natural world.
It's reasonable to have an opinion when it is, after all, a matter of conjecture. But I have to assume that the various infectious disease experts and academic virologists had thought about that as well, and it's notable that they tend to reject the "man-made" hypothesis.
In any case I don't see the "random" nature of the virus as very surprising; for many years (millenia?) the flu virus (for example) has evolved and changed unpredictably from year to year.
My meaning was that the virus had more of a random effect patient to patient, rather than a general shift in overall symptoms variant to variant, like 'flu.
Quote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 06:46:36 PMWhat you haven't shown is that legitimate, credible expert opinion was censored by any government
https://nypost.com/2023/09/20/how-dr-jay-bhattacharya-beat-biden-administration-censorship/
Quote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 07:38:16 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 06:46:36 PMWhat you haven't shown is that legitimate, credible expert opinion was censored by any government
https://nypost.com/2023/09/20/how-dr-jay-bhattacharya-beat-biden-administration-censorship/
While I'm sure you consider Bhattacharya's opinion to be credible yourself, that's not necessarily a view held by others.
(https://i.ibb.co/cT7DRxp/bat-misinfo.png)
https://www.salon.com/2022/12/16/why-elon-musk-and-right-wing-pundits-are-cheering-a-doctor-with-questionable-vaccine-views/
No-one should be surprised when a responsible government suppresses harmful misinformation where a matter of public health is concerned.
Found anything on your claim that "collusion" between the world's governments to censor (non-crank) expert opinion took place, yet?
Quote from: Slim on December 10, 2023, 07:36:39 PMQuote from: David L on December 09, 2023, 07:38:16 PMQuote from: Slim on December 09, 2023, 06:46:36 PMWhat you haven't shown is that legitimate, credible expert opinion was censored by any government
https://nypost.com/2023/09/20/how-dr-jay-bhattacharya-beat-biden-administration-censorship/
While I'm sure you consider Bhattacharya's opinion to be credible yourself, that's not necessarily a view held by others.
(https://i.ibb.co/cT7DRxp/bat-misinfo.png)
https://www.salon.com/2022/12/16/why-elon-musk-and-right-wing-pundits-are-cheering-a-doctor-with-questionable-vaccine-views/
No-one should be surprised when a responsible government suppresses harmful misinformation ;D where a matter of public health is concerned.
Found anything on your claim that "collusion" between the world's governments to censor (non-crank) expert opinion took place, yet?
"My expert is more credible than your expert!" ;D
It's pretty easy to find evidence of disagreenets of opinion between experts. And we know who makes the decision on what is misinformation.
Was it ever acknowledged that the claim that vaccines would prevent transmission or that masks ever worked against Covid was health misinformation?
Quote from: David L on December 10, 2023, 08:57:27 PMIt's pretty easy to find evidence of disagreenets of opinion between experts. And we know who makes the decision on what is misinformation.
Was it ever acknowledged that the claim that vaccines would prevent transmission or that masks ever worked against Covid was health misinformation?
Nope. Because it wasn't misinformation in either case, and the fact that you believe it was really underlines the need to keep this sort of bollocks in check.
Quote from: Slim on December 10, 2023, 09:09:29 PMQuote from: David L on December 10, 2023, 08:57:27 PMIt's pretty easy to find evidence of disagreenets of opinion between experts. And we know who makes the decision on what is misinformation.
Was it ever acknowledged that the claim that vaccines would prevent transmission or that masks ever worked against Covid was health misinformation?
Nope. Because it wasn't misinformation in either case, and the fact that you believe it was really underlines the need to keep this sort of bollocks in check.
Perhaps I should have used the term disinformation instead
Science = a Work in Progress.
Ho-hum, such is life.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on December 12, 2023, 09:54:28 AMScience = a Work in Progress.
Ho-hum, such is life.
Ho-hum, hey-ho........oh, shit!
Quote from: David L on December 12, 2023, 10:05:28 AMHo-hum, hey-ho........oh, shit!
:)
Not in this case, thankfully.
(https://i.ibb.co/2F6LpqR/mrna-harml1.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/NLm9dkJ/mrna-harml2.png)
.. from the BBC piece linked from the YouTube post.
"Scientists discover novel vaccine that was rushed to market behaves in a way that was not predicted"
Turns out that for one in three recipients, the messenger is dyslexic
;D
Well, this is interesting piece:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/was-the-covid-science-wrong-what-the-sunak-documents-tell-us/ar-AA1lpePj?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=c29ac14b07af402182f14a642aa97396&ei=40
The last two statements in this piece get to the heart of the matter. The inquiry seems intent on the avoidance of answering the most important questions of all. Unless its remit is broadened, it will be a complete and utter waste of money.
(I don't expect to hear any of the issues raised here reported by the MSM)
So the gist of this is that "the federal government paid media organisations to promote the vaccines during the pandemic". I've only watched the first two ridiculous minutes. Is that it? And this in a video labelled "Now it Makes Sense", as if that didn't make sense nearly three years ago?
Quote from: Slim on December 18, 2023, 09:33:35 AMSo the gist of this is that "the federal government paid media organisations to promote the vaccines during the pandemic". I've only watched the first two ridiculous minutes. Is that it? And this in a video labelled "Now it Makes Sense", as if that didn't make sense nearly three years ago?
It never made sense to vaccinate kids
Quote from: David L on December 18, 2023, 09:58:50 AMQuote from: Slim on December 18, 2023, 09:33:35 AMSo the gist of this is that "the federal government paid media organisations to promote the vaccines during the pandemic". I've only watched the first two ridiculous minutes. Is that it? And this in a video labelled "Now it Makes Sense", as if that didn't make sense nearly three years ago?
It never made sense to vaccinate kids
At the very least it made sense to do that, as was explained carefully at the time. Whether it was appropriate given the balance of risks is a matter of opinion, but the justification was reasonable and on balance, I think it was the right thing to do.
I have mild COVID or flu symptoms this morning. I'm working at the moment and it's not too bad. Just a sort of dull headache, sore eyes, absence of energy and a cough. Didn't get out of bed until 0945. Will probably retreat between the duvet again in a couple of hours.
I briefly contemplated cracking open a bottle of Talisker last night, glad I didn't as a hangover on top of this would not be welcome.
Sorry to hear that, James. Hope it's a mild thing and you still enjoy Christmas. The Scottish news stated that 1 in 24 have Covid at the moment. I was quite shocked by that. I had planned a bit more shopping tonight or tomorrow, but might just settle for what I've got already.
Sorry to hear, hope you get over it soon James!
I went back to bed at about 3pm, stayed there for four hours then got up and took a test.
(https://i.ibb.co/CvgfsDL/ctest23122.jpg)
Will have a look at my running commentary in this thread from last time I had it, to get an idea of the trajectory. At the moment I feel a bit knackered and coughy but not too bad. I'm a bit worried I'll get worse overnight.
Wish I'd had an opportunity to get a booster jab this autumn but oh well, assuming I emerge alive I'll have an immunity boost from the virus.
Quote from: David L on December 22, 2023, 11:22:34 PMHow many times now?
Booster jab? ;D
It doesn't prevent, it mitigates.
For many people this winter's jab might be the difference between feeling well enough to work, or not. Or to feel some mild but irritating symptoms, or no symptoms at all. And so on.
I took the jab (and the flu jab as usual) this time round and, for the anecdotal record, am feeling very chipper indeed - I love Xmas, me! :)
Went to bed at about 10:30pm last night, just got up again 20 minutes. Unlike last time I wasn't really that uncomfortable overnight but this morning I developed a powerful headache pain behind my right eye .. felt like I'd been kicked in the face. Ibuprofen took the edge off it, I only took one and it's gone now.
I feel OK now, like I'm recovering from a cold. Low on energy but not incapacitated. So it wasn't as bad as last time. Fingers crossed I'm through it now.
Unfortunate as it looks like a nice cycling day out there .. would have been nice to roll down to Twycross and back. But it's a bit late in the day now and I've hardly eaten this last 36 hours so I think I'd run out of juice after the first ten miles.
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 23, 2023, 10:23:52 AMQuote from: David L on December 22, 2023, 11:22:34 PMHow many times now?
Booster jab? ;D
It doesn't prevent, it mitigates.
For many people this winter's jab might be the difference between feeling well enough to work, or not. Or to feel some mild but irritating symptoms, or no symptoms at all. And so on.
It's probably not worth having and, in fact, increases your chances of re-infection after a few months according to this study from Austria
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.14136
Quote from: David L on December 23, 2023, 03:37:55 PMIt's probably not worth having and, in fact, increases your chances of re-infection after a few months according to this study from Austria
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.14136
That's really interesting, but to be clear it refers to the benefits for people who've already had three jabs. Not everyone is in that category although I'd guess most people are by now. Hopefully.
"We estimated the risk of COVID-19 deaths and SARS-CoV-2 infections according to vaccination status in previously infected individuals in Austria."
Nothing about mitigation of symptoms which was Matt's point.
Also - although I only skimmed it, I can't see anything in the paper that suggests that a fourth booster would cause an increased probability of reinfection. I fed the whole discussion section to ChatGPT, and asked.
"The text does note a reversal of the protective effect during extended follow-up in 2023, but it doesn't provide specific details about whether this reversal results in increased susceptibility or if it simply means that the protective effect diminishes over time. The language used is more focused on the declining effectiveness rather than a direct increase in susceptibility after a certain period."
So which part are you referring to?
Results
Among 3,986,312 previously infected individuals, 281,291 (7,1%) had four and 1,545,242 (38.8%) had three vaccinations at baseline. We recorded 69 COVID-19 deaths and 89,056 SARS-CoV-2 infections. rVE for four versus three vaccine doses was −24% (95% CI: −120 to 30) against COVID-19 deaths, and 17% (95% CI: 14–19) against SARS-CoV-2 infections. This latter effect rapidly diminished over time and infection risk with four vaccinations was higher compared to less vaccinated individuals during extended follow-up until June 2023.
Also interesting:
Our findings fit well to the hypothesis of diminishing effectiveness and thus shifting risk–benefit ratios from additional vaccinations during the transition of the COVID-19 pandemic to its endemic phase.2 In view of the strong and population-wide immunological protection due to previous infections and vaccinations, it is tempting to speculate that SARS-CoV-2 infections may already resemble by 2023 other human coronaviruses
It's almost as if there's an arms race going on where viruses evolve and treatments are necessarily reactive. :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 23, 2023, 05:38:23 PMIt's almost as if there's an arms race going on where viruses evolve and treatments are necessarily reactive. :)
I think a virus arms race may have had something to do with the pandemic :)
Quote from: David L on December 23, 2023, 07:19:08 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on December 23, 2023, 05:38:23 PMIt's almost as if there's an arms race going on where viruses evolve and treatments are necessarily reactive. :)
I think a virus arms race may have had something to do with the pandemic :)
Of a
novel coronavirus; indeed.
Ah yes, excess deaths; alarming indeed. And it seems that largely, we have the unvaccinated to thank for those troubling figures. Best of luck. Nurse Campbell's video will be deleted shortly; he's a well-established disinformation peddler.
(https://i.ibb.co/DCy7BRF/ons-deaths.jpg)
Quote from: Slim on January 06, 2024, 11:27:10 AMAh yes, excess deaths; alarming indeed. And it seems that largely, we have the unvaccinated to thank for those troubling figures. Best of luck. Nurse Campbell's video will be deleted shortly; he's a well-established disinformation peddler.
(https://i.ibb.co/DCy7BRF/ons-deaths.jpg)
That graph seems to suggest that we don't have the unvaccinated to blame for excess deaths in the last year. It's always been recognised that those who chose to be vaccinated were members of society that, in general, either were already in better health or were more concerned about their health.
It's a shame you've opted to shut down debate by removing content. Mostly, Campbell just brings interesting data and opinions to the attention of viewers. Perhaps your opinion is that Farage is a peddler of disinformation or Angus Dalgleish's statements are false or his opinions are nonsense? I don't know because you've not commented on that. That would be worth debating rather than censoring, would it not?
The only difference between those two sets of figures is that the folks who have tended to die in greater numbers, proportionally speaking, are those who have never been vaccinated.
I don't agree with your assessment of Campbell and while I welcome a broad spectrum of views on the site, I have to draw the line at obvious health disinformation.
>:(
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67935037?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_medium=social&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=A2DE6F82-AFBA-11EE-9C4B-B84FD0B4AF07&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_format=link&at_campaign=Social_Flow
Considering the UK had one of the most successful and quickest vaccine rollouts in the world and that the results got us out of the pandemic and saved countless lives, I can't imagine there's a general clamour for an investigation. Box ticking exercise at most, I'd have thought.
Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2024, 02:15:58 PMConsidering the UK had one of the most successful and quickest vaccine rollouts in the world and that the results got us out of the pandemic and saved countless lives, I can't imagine there's a general clamour for an investigation. Box ticking exercise at most, I'd have thought.
Makes you wonder how on earth so many other countries got out of the pandemic by vaccinating so very few of their population, doesn't it?
Case numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic). By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally, what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..? :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 04:09:47 PMCase numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic). By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally, what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..? :)
Increased naturally-acquired immunity and successively less pathogenic variants of the virus, perhaps? It seems to be the only things you can point to in many countries.
And many countries had little or no restrictions to "get through"/"get out of" ('miraculously', without huge consequences in terms of high 'Covid deaths')
An interesting paradox, is it not? :)
Quote from: David L on January 11, 2024, 05:22:54 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 04:09:47 PMCase numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic). By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally, what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..? :)
Increased naturally-acquired immunity and successively less pathogenic variants of the virus, perhaps? It seems to be the only things you can point to in many countries.
Fine, but which countries? Generally poorer ones with less vaccine provision - the results of which could be known and foreseen - and more dependence on natural outcomes - the results of which couldn't be?
QuoteAnd many countries had little or no restrictions to "get through"/"get out of" ('miraculously', without huge consequences in terms of high 'Covid deaths')
An interesting paradox, is it not? :)
Wouldn't that depend on their vaccine coverage? Sweden is an oft-quoted example in these sort of discussions - a developed country with soft measures but a vaccine coverage similar to the U.K.
The problem here though of course is it's pretty much impossible to draw firm conclusions from different countries' comparable stats due to the various factors at play over and above case numbers/outcomes/strategies (population densities, demographics etc).
Quote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 07:11:27 PMQuote from: David L on January 11, 2024, 05:22:54 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 04:09:47 PMCase numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic). By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally, what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..? :)
Increased naturally-acquired immunity and successively less pathogenic variants of the virus, perhaps? It seems to be the only things you can point to in many countries.
Fine, but which countries? Generally poorer ones with less vaccine provision - the results of which could be known and foreseen - and more dependence on natural outcomes - the results of which couldn't be?
This data from reuters goes as far as July 2022. Take a look at the Democratic Republic of Congo (find on the list and click on country).In particular the graph for 'daily averages as percentage of peak'. The pattern is reasonably consistent with most countries, including the UK. Take a look at where the data ends and compare with the UK. In the UK 80% of the population had received at least one dose of vaccine. In DRoC, that figure was 3%. Now, if there was a massive surge in covid deaths in that country after July 2022, the MSM has chosen not to report it.
Of course, the good people of DRoC could have been consuming copious amounts of "horse de-wormer" ;D
Other countries with a low-vaccinated population look similar. That points towards a pattern that is/was not dependant on the performance/distribution of the vaccine :-\
https://www.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/vaccination-rollout-and-access/
New Zealand is worth a mention. At that point in time (July 2022) 87% of its population was vaccinated, yet it was suffering deaths at 97% of peak. That doesn't suggest the vaccine was working too well to me :-\
Quote from: David L on January 11, 2024, 07:48:51 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 07:11:27 PMQuote from: David L on January 11, 2024, 05:22:54 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 04:09:47 PMCase numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic). By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally, what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..? :)
Increased naturally-acquired immunity and successively less pathogenic variants of the virus, perhaps? It seems to be the only things you can point to in many countries.
Fine, but which countries? Generally poorer ones with less vaccine provision - the results of which could be known and foreseen - and more dependence on natural outcomes - the results of which couldn't be?
This data from reuters goes as far as July 2022. Take a look at the Democratic Republic of Congo (find on the list and click on country).In particular the graph for 'daily averages as percentage of peak'. The pattern is reasonably consistent with most countries, including the UK. Take a look at where the data ends and compare with the UK. In the UK 80% of the population had received at least one dose of vaccine. In DRoC, that figure was 3%. Now, if there was a massive surge in covid deaths in that country after July 2022, the MSM has chosen not to report it.
Of course, the good people of DRoC could have been consuming copious amounts of "horse de-wormer" ;D
Other countries with a low-vaccinated population look similar. That points towards a pattern that is/was not dependant on the performance/distribution of the vaccine :-\
https://www.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/vaccination-rollout-and-access/
New Zealand is worth a mention. At that point in time (July 2022) 87% of its population was vaccinated, yet it was suffering deaths at 97% of peak. That doesn't suggest the vaccine was working too well to me :-\
That reuters link cannot be accessed multiple times, I've found. No idea why but it becomes 'blocked'. This one looks pretty good though:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
and this one:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
New Zealand is actually not a good example for me to mention as, looking more closely. even though the vaccination rates are similar to the UK, they are way down on deaths/million compared to the UK. I think, as you suggest, comparisons are virtually impossible (due to the variables you mention) but the point I was trying to make is the path that the pandemic has taken in
some low-vaccinated populations is similar to that taken in
some highly-vaccinated poulations. Why have those low-vaccinated populations not been decimated? Is the driver for these patterns largely, or partly dictated by natural behaviour of this particular coronavirus (waves of less contagious but highly pathogenic variants followed by highly contagious but less pathogenic variants)?
I struggle to understand how it can confidently be stated that the vaccine has saved XXXXX number of lives when absence of the vaccine has not led to far higher death figures (especially in those low-vax countries whose infection/death-rate patterns were virtually identical to high-vax countries before and after the vax was deployed)
Interesting stuff though. I'm sure the inquiry will provide all the answers but no time soon :)
Well, whether you think the vaccines were necessary to extricate this or that country from the pandemic or not, there's no doubt that they did save very many lives so in that sense it's a moot point.
You'll recall surely that while the pandemic was still raging in the US, a massively disproportionate number of those dying in hospital were unvaccinated?
You're right to say that it's futile to compare NZ with the UK for example because of the various cultural / geographical variables, but you can compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated results in the same country where those geographical complications don't apply:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
(https://i.ibb.co/tsxt8nx/vax-stat-death.png)
.. so this is how we can confidently state that, contrary to your assertion, absence of the vaccine led to far higher death figures.
Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2024, 11:14:41 PMWell, whether you think the vaccines were necessary to extricate this or that country from the pandemic or not, there's no doubt that they did save very many lives so in that sense it's a moot point.
You'll recall surely that while the pandemic was still raging in the US, a massively disproportionate number of those dying in hospital were unvaccinated?
You're right to say that it's futile to compare NZ with the UK for example because of the various cultural / geographical variables, but you can compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated results in the same country where those geographical complications don't apply:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
(https://i.ibb.co/tsxt8nx/vax-stat-death.png)
.. so this is how we can confidently state that, contrary to your assertion, absence of the vaccine led to far higher death figures.
Can't take that too seriously when I look at the source
https://ashpublications.org/ashclinicalnews/news/4797/CDC-Pressed-to-Acknowledge-Industry-Funding
https://thefederalist.com/2022/02/22/the-centers-for-disease-controls-lies-have-destroyed-its-legitimacy/
Oh it's fake is it? Curious, because the data for England, and from a different source (the ONS) gives a very similar picture:
(https://i.ibb.co/KbgDX2H/ons-deaths-status.png)
It's not the same time period, or the same population. Or the same source, yet it tells the same story: the death rate among unvaccinated folks was dramatically higher during the pandemic. At one point, nearly 10X higher.
What, in your opinion, is the reason that some countries did not require widespread vaccination (to reduce covid deaths) when they had shown a similar spike in covid deaths, pre-vaccine, to countries that subsequently required widespread vaccination to get to the same point?
I'm not qualified to offer an informed opinion on that. At a guess, they reached something approaching herd immunity the harder way (ie following a considerably higher death toll).
Quote from: Slim on January 12, 2024, 10:21:53 AMI'm not qualified to offer an informed opinion on that. At a guess, they reached something approaching herd immunity the harder way (ie following a considerably higher death toll).
That's a reasonable opinion. The only point of conjecture would be whether that higher death toll represented a lesser or greater cost in the long term.
Quote from: David L on January 12, 2024, 11:05:28 AMQuote from: Slim on January 12, 2024, 10:21:53 AMI'm not qualified to offer an informed opinion on that. At a guess, they reached something approaching herd immunity the harder way (ie following a considerably higher death toll).
That's a reasonable opinion. The only point of conjecture would be whether that higher death toll represented a lesser or greater cost in the long term.
Than what?
Landmark study into the consequences of vaccine hesitancy - 7,000 hospitalisations and deaths could have been averted, the study finds.
https://www.strath.ac.uk/whystrathclyde/news/2024/firstall-ukstudyrevealsconsequencesofmissedcovid-19vaccines/
The findings reveal that the proportion of people who were under-vaccinated on 1 June 2022 ranged between one third and one half of the population – 45.7% for England, 49.8% for Northern Ireland, 34.2% for Scotland and 32.8% Wales.
Mathematical modelling indicated that 7,180 hospitalisations and deaths out of around 40,400 severe COVID-19 outcomes during four months in summer 2022 might have been averted, if the UK population was fully vaccinated.
Probably should have omitted the term 'modelling' ;)
https://www.businesstoday.in/visualstories/news/china-experimenting-with-lethal-virus-says-report-this-one-has-100-kill-rate-among-mice-92262-18-01-2024
Bit of a red flag there where the piece refers to the "Wuhan research that led to the COVID-19 pandemic" as though it's fact, but anyway - the Mail piece is here and a bit less alarmist.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12969105/chinese-scientists-lab-coronavirus-kill-rate-mice.html
Another negative test today. Must be a rotten cold then. Haven't had one in years.
Hopefully the first of many similar rulings
Disappointed to see that, but fingers crossed the Aussies don't get another similar pandemic. It's certainly a reasonable condition of employment for people with a duty to public service who come into contact with vulnerable people.
Quote from: Slim on February 27, 2024, 08:48:11 AMDisappointed to see that, but fingers crossed the Aussies don't get another similar pandemic. It's certainly a reasonable condition of employment for people with a duty to public service who come into contact with vulnerable people.
Even if the vaccine does not prevent transmission?
Quote from: David L on February 27, 2024, 09:04:43 AMQuote from: Slim on February 27, 2024, 08:48:11 AMDisappointed to see that, but fingers crossed the Aussies don't get another similar pandemic. It's certainly a reasonable condition of employment for people with a duty to public service who come into contact with vulnerable people.
Even if the vaccine does not prevent transmission?
Interesting hypothetical question. In those circumstances the same principle wouldn't apply, I agree.
Quote from: Slim on February 27, 2024, 09:08:51 AMQuote from: David L on February 27, 2024, 09:04:43 AMQuote from: Slim on February 27, 2024, 08:48:11 AMDisappointed to see that, but fingers crossed the Aussies don't get another similar pandemic. It's certainly a reasonable condition of employment for people with a duty to public service who come into contact with vulnerable people.
Even if the vaccine does not prevent transmission?
Interesting hypothetical question. In those circumstances the same principle wouldn't apply, I agree.
Those
were the circumstances
Quote from: David L on February 27, 2024, 10:36:05 AMThose were the circumstances
Nope.
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298(https://i.ibb.co/TMKFKZ6/vacc-trans.png)
Quote from: Slim on February 27, 2024, 10:49:49 AMQuote from: David L on February 27, 2024, 10:36:05 AMThose were the circumstances
Nope.
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o298(https://i.ibb.co/TMKFKZ6/vacc-trans.png)
Plenty mention of ineffectiveness of prevention of onward transmission in that very article. No reduction in viral load shed between vaxed and un-vaxed. The only mechanism by which transmission could be reduced is if the vaccine prevents infection. Does/did it?
Even the CDC concluded that effect would be "modest and short-lived"
I wonder if it would have affected the public's perception if that finding had been made public before the vaccine rollout?
https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/whats-new/5-things-you-should-know.html
Yes, it does / did. A "modest" effect that saves lives is certainly worth enforcing.
See also : https://www.mdpi.com/2673-8112/3/10/103
(https://i.ibb.co/7gXjsxM/virus-trans.png)
Quote from: Slim on February 27, 2024, 11:32:26 AMYes, it does / did. A "modest" effect that saves lives is certainly worth enforcing.
See also : https://www.mdpi.com/2673-8112/3/10/103
(https://i.ibb.co/7gXjsxM/virus-trans.png)
;D
Sponsored by Pfizer
https://www.cochrane.org/MR000033/METHOD_industry-sponsorship-and-research-outcome
The least you can expect from the pharmaceutical industry is that they'll contribute to research on the efficacy and safety of their products, so I'm pleased to hear it. Did they sponsor the first piece I linked, which shows unequivocally that the vaccines reduce transmission? If they did, how exactly did they interfere with the results?
Pharmaceutical interests or patient safety
https://appgpandemic.org/news/mhra-letter-health-select-committee
All party parliamentary group conclude that the MHRA "continues to put patients at serious risk"
Quote from: David L on February 28, 2024, 07:30:23 AMPharmaceutical interests or patient safety
https://appgpandemic.org/news/mhra-letter-health-select-committee
All party parliamentary group conclude that the MHRA "continues to put patients at serious risk"
One minute parliamentarians are almost all incompetent or corrupt, the next minute they're the most authoritative voice on medical matters on the planet.
BTW, where are we up to with serious adverse reactions: 0.001%?
Here, we report on a 62-year-old male hypervaccinated individual from Magdeburg, Germany (HIM), who deliberately and for private reasons received 217 vaccinations against SARS-CoV-2 within a period of 29 months
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(24)00134-8/fulltext
Not a recommendation, but it appears he suffered no harmful effects either.
RCT trials confirm vitamin D levels crucial to protection fom Covid 19
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/16/5/679
Quote from: David L on March 13, 2024, 09:14:52 PMRCT trials confirm vitamin D levels crucial to protection fom Covid 19
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/16/5/679
Get out and get some sun then.
Quote from: Thenop on March 14, 2024, 07:49:02 AMQuote from: David L on March 13, 2024, 09:14:52 PMRCT trials confirm vitamin D levels crucial to protection fom Covid 19
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/16/5/679
Get out and get some sun then.
Easier said than done in the northern hemisphere at the moment ;)
The Vitamin D doesn't surprise me. It seems to have so many uses aside from preventing rickets. With the lack of Sun during the Winter months it's one of the few supplements that most would benefit from taking.
It's why I'm a white person. Helps me to absorb UV and synthesise vitamin D.
The COVID vaccines substantially reduce the risk of virus-related heart failure and blood clots:
https://heart.bmj.com/content/early/2024/01/24/heartjnl-2023-323483
(https://i.ibb.co/3rB9f7G/jabs-protect.png)
I've always taken daily Vitamin D supplements in the winter for as long as I can remember. Not had Covid either, nor my wife.
Interesting report that catching covid had the impact of lessening IQ. Even people who only suffered a mild dose are said to have dropped 2 or 3 points. Hospitalisation to treat covid could have caused a 9 or 10 point drop
Very unfortunate, given that it's generally those with the fewest points to lose who have passed on the jabs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/06/pfizer-breached-regulatory-code-five-times-watchdog-finds/
Quote from: David L on April 07, 2024, 10:57:45 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/06/pfizer-breached-regulatory-code-five-times-watchdog-finds/
This is the official text of the finding:
https://pmcpa.org.uk/media/efmhtzs5/3721-case-report-28-march-2024.pdf
It's actually about internal governance of their social media presence. There was only one breach of the code (Pfizer was found not to have breached the code on five separate counts, I wonder if someone at the Telegraph got a bit confused). And there's no reference in the document to "unlicenced medicines".
Quote from: Slim on April 08, 2024, 12:03:49 PMQuote from: David L on April 07, 2024, 10:57:45 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/06/pfizer-breached-regulatory-code-five-times-watchdog-finds/
This is the official text of the finding:
https://pmcpa.org.uk/media/efmhtzs5/3721-case-report-28-march-2024.pdf
It's actually about internal governance of their social media presence. There was only one breach of the code (Pfizer was found not to have breached the code on five separate counts, I wonder if someone at the Telegraph got a bit confused). And there's no reference in the document to "unlicenced medicines".
Very confused. Scandalous. I'm expecting Pfizer to litigate, they have the funds.....and considerable experience of litigation ;D
Quote from: Slim on April 08, 2024, 12:03:49 PMQuote from: David L on April 07, 2024, 10:57:45 PMhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/06/pfizer-breached-regulatory-code-five-times-watchdog-finds/
This is the official text of the finding:
https://pmcpa.org.uk/media/efmhtzs5/3721-case-report-28-march-2024.pdf
It's actually about internal governance of their social media presence. There was only one breach of the code (Pfizer was found not to have breached the code on five separate counts, I wonder if someone at the Telegraph got a bit confused). And there's no reference in the document to "unlicenced medicines".
That's not the case in question, this is:
https://www.pmcpa.org.uk/media/cwvkqvyz/3741-case-report-28-march-2024.pdf
The panel ruled breaches of five clauses including Clause 3.1 "Promoting an unlicensed medicine"
Pfizer were found to have "brought discredit upon and reduced confidence in the pharmaceutical industry"
Phenomenal response from the public gallery following Andrew Bridgen's speech on excess deaths today in the House of Commons
Absolute clowns, but a lot of thick people have been taken in. I don't think Bridgen is one of them. He's just trying to salvage a career out of their ignorance at the expense of people's health and lives.
I'm literally represented by the most dishonourable, irresponsible MP in the entire House of Commons, and I voted for him. But I'm looking forward to cleaning him out of there.
Quote from: Slim on April 19, 2024, 12:25:14 AMAbsolute clowns, but a lot of thick people have been taken in. I don't think Bridgen is one of them. He's just trying to salvage a career out of their ignorance at the expense of people's health and lives.
I'm literally represented by the most dishonourable, irresponsible MP in the entire House of Commons, and I voted for him. But I'm looking forward to cleaning him out of there.
His efforts here bring to mind those he made to reveal the truth about another scandal:
Yes, and Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Quote from: Slim on April 19, 2024, 12:45:33 PMYes, and Mussolini made the trains run on time.
I think I could put up with Fascism if that happened ;D
Where's the modern Mussolini?
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on April 19, 2024, 02:45:25 PMQuote from: Slim on April 19, 2024, 12:45:33 PMYes, and Mussolini made the trains run on time.
I think I could put up with Fascism if that happened ;D
Where's the modern Mussolini?
I think Slim is suggesting he is sitting as an independent MP for NW Leicestershire :-\ ;D
Nurse Campbell has been touting a link between the third "booster" COVID vaccine and a rise in the incidence of cancer. Unsuprisingly, it's bollocks.
Quote from: Slim on April 24, 2024, 02:10:53 PMNurse Campbell has been touting a link between the third "booster" COVID vaccine and a rise in the incidence of cancer. Unsuprisingly, it's bollocks.
Phew! That's good news! I wondered where she'd got to 🙂