I was reminded of this earlier today. President Trump's spiritual adviser responds to the news that he appears to be losing to Biden in the election by calling upon divine intervention at a special prayer service. November 4th, 2020.
I don't get the logic of that at all. If God does exist, surely he's universal and would never favour one faction over another.
Praying for your team to beat another or for you to win the lottery is ridiculous even if you do believe in God.
Prayer should be about acceptance and the coping skills to be able to cope with whatever life throws at you rather than to ensure life goes in a particular direction.
I have to question this thread's title. I think insanity would be more appropriate. Christianity is basically quite simple. Accept that this man is who he says he is or do something else. The diversity of Christianity has thrown up some behaviours incongruent with the original message. Man's problem, not God's
Less than half of England and Wales population Christian:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63792408
I'm one of the majority I suppose.
Quote from: dom on November 28, 2022, 10:26:31 PMI don't get the logic of that at all. If God does exist, surely he's universal and would never favour one faction over another.
Why?
Quote from: pxr5 on November 29, 2022, 11:05:41 AMLess than half of England and Wales population Christian:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63792408
I'm one of the majority I suppose.
And that minority figure is just for nominal Christians (NB. Apparently, for this "optional" Census question (itself badly phrased as a leading question), the response rate was about 95%).
If a "practising" Christian is defined as someone who regularly attends weekly worship, then we're talking more like 5% of the population.
The proportion of those stating, "No religion" (not necessarily all atheists) has rocketed.
So clearly it's high time to re-evaluate the place of the church in state affairs - especially given the CofE remains doctrinally homophobic by any accepted definition.
It's time we taught kids that God isn't real in our schools, seriously.
I believe sadly, that we have subtly but assuredly staggered blindly into the end times. Crank post of the year award probably coming my way. So be it.
Quote from: Slim on November 29, 2022, 05:03:37 PMIt's time we taught kids that God isn't real in our schools, seriously.
I wouldn't go that far, appealing as it intuitively is.
They should be taught how to think about these things, as opposed to
what to think about these things; and I can state from first-hand experience that there are insufficient safeguards against the latter, even in community schools.
I will have more on that very soon, incidentally.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on November 29, 2022, 05:34:46 PMI believe sadly, that we have subtly but assuredly staggered blindly into the end times.
It's actually just part of the trend line that originally took us out of the ultra-pious dark ages. Relax! :)
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on November 29, 2022, 05:34:46 PMI believe sadly, that we have subtly but assuredly staggered blindly into the end times. Crank post of the year award probably coming my way. So be it.
Not so subtly, I might add
Quote from: Matt2112 on November 29, 2022, 05:56:36 PMQuote from: Slim on November 29, 2022, 05:03:37 PMIt's time we taught kids that God isn't real in our schools, seriously.
I wouldn't go that far, appealing as it intuitively is.
They should be taught how to think about these things, as opposed to what to think about these things; and I can state from first-hand experience that there are insufficient safeguards against the latter, even in community schools.
I will have more on that very soon, incidentally.
Surely by the time children start school, their path is already set by their parents in terms of belief and faith. If parents have a strong religious leaning then it's highly likely their children will too. And those kids will likely got to their own faith schools which reinforces their belief. Not so much with CofE though.
My own parents had no faith and neither my sister or I were christened. I was taught RE and attended school religious services but the whole thing was meaningless to me and actually quite confusing. RE was just some stories from the past and that's all they were. Other kids I knew, many catholic, had religion shoved down their throats as soon as they could crawl and grew up to be devout and remained so.
So it matters not what is taught in schools - if belief is already there, not much can change that.
I'm not sure about that. Some kids will have agnostic parents and could still be influenced by religious belief. They can still be helped.
One important reason these old superstitions persist is that rational people turn a blind eye or accommodate them in the name of good will or a misguided sense of kindness. They can and must be overcome by reason but they won't be unless we actually bother to do that.
Quote from: pxr5 on November 29, 2022, 09:24:43 PMSurely by the time children start school, their path is already set by their parents in terms of belief and faith. If parents have a strong religious leaning then it's highly likely their children will too. And those kids will likely got to their own faith schools which reinforces their belief. Not so much with CofE though.
My own parents had no faith and neither my sister or I were christened. I was taught RE and attended school religious services but the whole thing was meaningless to me and actually quite confusing. RE was just some stories from the past and that's all they were. Other kids I knew, many catholic, had religion shoved down their throats as soon as they could crawl and grew up to be devout and remained so.
So it matters not what is taught in schools - if belief is already there, not much can change that.
That seems a very fatalistic way of looking at it and, besides, is only one scenario out of many. And, it strikes me, your last sentence couldn't be more wide of the mark!
Just plot the results on religious belief from the last three census and there is a clear dramatic decline in stated Christianity and an equally dramatic rise for stated "No religion"; yet there has been relatively little change in RE curricula, despite them often being taught sympathetically even in community schools.
I've always said - and this will sound paradoxical, given there should be no such thing as "faith schools" - that if you want to ensure your children are atheists, then send them to a Catholic school. Because that's pretty much my personal experience as someone who went to Catholic primary and secondary schools as an observant, Church-attending Catholic, and came out the other end as a firm and emancipated apostate.
Of course, many schools of all categorisations likely have some kind of organised religious representation trying to ensure their "message" is afforded deferential and privileged access in assemblies and lessons etc - remember that, by law,
all schools, "faith school" or not, are required to have communal worship "of a broadly Christian nature", which is just the open door the likes of the CofE require - because hardly anyone is minded to go and knock on theirs. And that tells you everything.
Well, I wish that 99% of the population were devout Christians, we might get Christmas starting on 25th December then and not in the middle of bloody September >:(
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on December 01, 2022, 02:47:37 PMWell, I wish that 99% of the population were devout Christians, we might get Christmas starting on 25th December then and not in the middle of bloody September >:(
Yeah, and we would still have the Cadbury's Crème Eggs to look forward to when we fill up the car on Boxing Day.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on December 01, 2022, 02:47:37 PMWell, I wish that 99% of the population were devout Christians, we might get Christmas starting on 25th December then and not in the middle of bloody September >:(
Cheer up! It's a dark and miserable time of year. If a few twinkling lights and tinsel can cheer someone up, why not? Even if Christmas is still a few weeks away.
Quote from: dom on December 01, 2022, 06:01:01 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on December 01, 2022, 02:47:37 PMWell, I wish that 99% of the population were devout Christians, we might get Christmas starting on 25th December then and not in the middle of bloody September >:(
Cheer up! It's a dark and miserable time of year. If a few twinkling lights and tinsel can cheer someone up, why not? Even if Christmas is still a few weeks away.
And with the current energy crisis, people shouldn't be putting twinkling lights up >:(
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on December 01, 2022, 07:09:41 PMQuote from: dom on December 01, 2022, 06:01:01 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on December 01, 2022, 02:47:37 PMWell, I wish that 99% of the population were devout Christians, we might get Christmas starting on 25th December then and not in the middle of bloody September >:(
Cheer up! It's a dark and miserable time of year. If a few twinkling lights and tinsel can cheer someone up, why not? Even if Christmas is still a few weeks away.
And with the current energy crisis, people shouldn't be putting twinkling lights up >:(
And very disrespectful to Ukraine
Twinkling LEDs won't contribute significantly to the cost of living crisis, but caving into peer pressure and buying Nintendo Switch OLEDs, bikes, scooters, VR headsets and a bunch of other "must-haves" on 12 months' tick will. :-\
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 01, 2022, 11:23:43 PMTwinkling LEDs won't contribute significantly to the cost of living crisis, but caving into peer pressure and buying Nintendo Switch OLEDs, bikes, scooters, VR headsets and a bunch of other "must-haves" on 12 months' tick will. :-\
It'll be a tangerine in a stocking for all in the 2112 household again this year then! ;D ;)
Bah humbug!
Quote from: David L on December 02, 2022, 12:19:30 AMQuote from: Matt2112 on December 01, 2022, 11:23:43 PMTwinkling LEDs won't contribute significantly to the cost of living crisis, but caving into peer pressure and buying Nintendo Switch OLEDs, bikes, scooters, VR headsets and a bunch of other "must-haves" on 12 months' tick will. :-\
It'll be a tangerine in a stocking for all in the 2112 household again this year then! ;D ;)
Bah humbug!
:D
We'll be able to get the Little Miss a couple of "nice things" thankfully, but she's certainly not going to be showered with gifts as: 1) it's wasteful; 2) I don't want her to feel disproportionately entitled to it; and 3) I'm a tight Yorkshire get. ;D
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 01, 2022, 11:23:43 PMbikes
Bikes are good. For the environment, for your health and for your spiritual wellbeing :)
(https://wp-media.patheos.com/blogs/sites/719/2018/08/Christ-on-a-bike-768x770.jpg)
Christ on a bike!
No spokes - it's a miracle!!
A nice yellow helmet too - good man.
No helmet either...idiot
At least within Christianity there's the inbuilt premise of turning the other cheek and in fact even welcoming persecution. This pretty much frees up anyone to say whatever they like about people of Christian faith without fear of retaliation, verbal or physical. Can the same be said for other beliefs?
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 02, 2022, 01:53:21 PMAt least within Christianity there's the inbuilt premise of turning the other cheek and in fact even welcoming persecution. This pretty much frees up anyone to say whatever they like about people of Christian faith without fear of retaliation, verbal or physical.
History tells us that position is inversely proportional to how much theocratic power Christianity holds.
See also: pretty much any other major religion.
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 02, 2022, 02:29:05 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 02, 2022, 01:53:21 PMAt least within Christianity there's the inbuilt premise of turning the other cheek and in fact even welcoming persecution. This pretty much frees up anyone to say whatever they like about people of Christian faith without fear of retaliation, verbal or physical.
History tells us that position is inversely proportional to how much theocratic power Christianity holds.
See also: pretty much any other major religion.
Sorry Matt, I didn't make it clear that I was talking about the modern day situation, albeit relating to a phrase from the Bible.
You would I imagine, be fairly safe writing a journalistic piece for a national newspaper or well known blogs site, criticising Christianity as strongly as you like, and feel relatively safe. Perhaps if that criticism was directed as forcefully in the direction of another faith, you wouldn't feel as comfortable. I hope that's clearer.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 02, 2022, 02:48:59 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on December 02, 2022, 02:29:05 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on December 02, 2022, 01:53:21 PMAt least within Christianity there's the inbuilt premise of turning the other cheek and in fact even welcoming persecution. This pretty much frees up anyone to say whatever they like about people of Christian faith without fear of retaliation, verbal or physical.
History tells us that position is inversely proportional to how much theocratic power Christianity holds.
See also: pretty much any other major religion.
Sorry Matt, I didn't make it clear that I was talking about the modern day situation, albeit relating to a phrase from the Bible.
You would I imagine, be fairly safe writing a journalistic piece for a national newspaper or well known blogs site, criticising Christianity as strongly as you like, and feel relatively safe. Perhaps if that criticism was directed as forcefully in the direction of another faith, you wouldn't feel as comfortable. I hope that's clearer.
I get what you are saying. The self-censorship that goes on regarding Islam in particular is effectively a de facto blasphemy law - and this should be firmly resisted.
Isn't it depressingly ironic that those who only very recently wouldn't dare have anyone call the hijab symbolically oppressive are now the first ones to claim solidarity with those women who have been burning them in Iran? ::)
Quote from: GhostWriter on February 23, 2024, 02:44:47 AMI showed up here to read about Slim's conversion after all these years. Can someone point me to where it is? :)
I think it's Page 59 of the What Made You Grumpy Today thread? He's getting a new bathroom.😂