Quote from: Matt2112 on December 23, 2023, 10:23:52 AM

Quote from: David L on December 22, 2023, 11:22:34 PMHow many times now?

Booster jab? 

It doesn't prevent, it mitigates.

For many people this winter's jab might be the difference between feeling well enough to work, or not.  Or to feel some mild but irritating symptoms, or no symptoms at all. And so on.

It's probably not worth having and, in fact, increases your chances of re-infection after a few months according to this study from Austria

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.14136

Quote from: David L on December 23, 2023, 03:37:55 PMIt's probably not worth having and, in fact, increases your chances of re-infection after a few months according to this study from Austria

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.14136

That's really interesting, but to be clear it refers to the benefits for people who've already had three jabs. Not everyone is in that category although I'd guess most people are by now. Hopefully.

"We estimated the risk of COVID-19 deaths and SARS-CoV-2 infections according to vaccination status in previously infected individuals in Austria."

Nothing about mitigation of symptoms which was Matt's point.

Also - although I only skimmed it, I can't see anything in the paper that suggests that a fourth booster would cause an increased probability of reinfection. I fed the whole discussion section to ChatGPT, and asked.

"The text does note a reversal of the protective effect during extended follow-up in 2023, but it doesn't provide specific details about whether this reversal results in increased susceptibility or if it simply means that the protective effect diminishes over time. The language used is more focused on the declining effectiveness rather than a direct increase in susceptibility after a certain period."

So which part are you referring to?

Results

Among 3,986,312 previously infected individuals, 281,291 (7,1%) had four and 1,545,242 (38.8%) had three vaccinations at baseline. We recorded 69 COVID-19 deaths and 89,056 SARS-CoV-2 infections. rVE for four versus three vaccine doses was −24% (95% CI: −120 to 30) against COVID-19 deaths, and 17% (95% CI: 14–19) against SARS-CoV-2 infections. This latter effect rapidly diminished over time and infection risk with four vaccinations was higher compared to less vaccinated individuals during extended follow-up until June 2023.

Also interesting:

Our findings fit well to the hypothesis of diminishing effectiveness and thus shifting risk–benefit ratios from additional vaccinations during the transition of the COVID-19 pandemic to its endemic phase.2 In view of the strong and population-wide immunological protection due to previous infections and vaccinations, it is tempting to speculate that SARS-CoV-2 infections may already resemble by 2023 other human coronaviruses

It's almost as if there's an arms race going on where viruses evolve and treatments are necessarily reactive.

Quote from: Matt2112 on December 23, 2023, 05:38:23 PMIt's almost as if there's an arms race going on where viruses evolve and treatments are necessarily reactive.

I think a virus arms race may have had something to do with the pandemic 

Quote from: David L on December 23, 2023, 07:19:08 PM

Quote from: Matt2112 on December 23, 2023, 05:38:23 PMIt's almost as if there's an arms race going on where viruses evolve and treatments are necessarily reactive.

I think a virus arms race may have had something to do with the pandemic 

Of a novel coronavirus; indeed.

Ah yes, excess deaths; alarming indeed. And it seems that largely, we have the unvaccinated to thank for those troubling figures. Best of luck. Nurse Campbell's video will be deleted shortly; he's a well-established disinformation peddler.

Quote from: Slim on January 06, 2024, 11:27:10 AMAh yes, excess deaths; alarming indeed. And it seems that largely, we have the unvaccinated to thank for those troubling figures. Best of luck. Nurse Campbell's video will be deleted shortly; he's a well-established disinformation peddler.

That graph seems to suggest that we don't have the unvaccinated to blame for excess deaths in the last year. It's always been recognised that those who chose to be vaccinated were members of society that, in general, either were already in better health or were more concerned about their health.

It's a shame you've opted to shut down debate by removing content. Mostly, Campbell just brings interesting data and opinions to the attention of viewers. Perhaps your opinion is that Farage is a peddler of disinformation or Angus Dalgleish's statements are false or his opinions are nonsense? I don't know because you've not commented on that. That would be worth debating rather than censoring, would it not?

The only difference between those two sets of figures is that the folks who have tended to die in greater numbers, proportionally speaking, are those who have never been vaccinated.

I don't agree with your assessment of Campbell  and while I welcome a broad spectrum of views on the site, I have to draw the line at obvious health disinformation.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67935037?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_medium=social&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=A2DE6F82-AFBA-11EE-9C4B-B84FD0B4AF07&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCNews&at_format=link&at_campaign=Social_Flow

Considering the UK had one of the most successful and quickest vaccine rollouts in the world and that the results got us out of the pandemic and saved countless lives, I can't imagine there's a general clamour for an investigation. Box ticking exercise at most, I'd have thought.

Quote from: Slim on January 11, 2024, 02:15:58 PMConsidering the UK had one of the most successful and quickest vaccine rollouts in the world and that the results got us out of the pandemic and saved countless lives, I can't imagine there's a general clamour for an investigation. Box ticking exercise at most, I'd have thought.

Makes you wonder how on earth so many other countries got out of the pandemic by vaccinating so very few of their population, doesn't it?

Case numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic).  By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally,  what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..?

Quote from: Matt2112 on January 11, 2024, 04:09:47 PMCase numbers suggest we're technically still in a pandemic (and might as well consider Covid endemic).  By "got through"/"got out" I take it to refer to the period of lockdown restrictions etc. So, generally,  what was the major factor in their gradual relaxation? Increasing vaccine coverage, perhaps..?

Increased naturally-acquired immunity and successively less pathogenic variants of the virus, perhaps? It seems to be the only things you can point to in many countries.
And many countries had little or no restrictions to "get through"/"get out of" ('miraculously', without huge consequences in terms of high 'Covid deaths')
An interesting paradox, is it not?