When you think about it - much as we loved them, the music of Rush conformed to quite a limited format, didn't it? Although there are a few tunes in which additional musicians were used - perhaps most notably Andy Richards on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire and the strings on Clockwork Angels - mostly, it's a case of
Geddy - bass, vocal and crude keyboards
Alex - guitar
Neil - drums
Some bands have, or had a lot more versatility than this. The Beatles are an obvious example - all four of them sang lead vocals. Paul plays piano on some of the tunes. He plays the drums on one song! Which is where the oft-repeated quote that Ringo "wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles" comes from, although he definitely was. George Martin played the memorable keyboard part on Nowhere Man and loads of their stuff has additional musicians.
10CC as well - again, all four sang lead vocals and some of their stuff, like the Beatles, is keyboard-based.
Even the Stones used Keith to sing the lead part from time to time. Bill Wyman sings on one early tune. Actually Bill doesn't play bass on all of their tunes; Ronnie Wood and Mick Taylor both play bass occasionally. They always toured with a keyboard player.
It's a bit late now but I think that Rush should, minimally, have hired a proper keyboard player as a touring musician some time after 2112. I actually think they should have added a fourth proper member of the band to play keyboards, sing, and write.
Is it an odd thought, to have someone in a successful band singing when he or she wasn't a member during their "classic" period? Perhaps it is but, for example, Timothy Schmit joined after Hotel California but he did (does?) sing lead vocals from time to time in The Eagles. Glenn Hughes obviously wasn't in Purple in their Machine Head heyday but he has at least one lead vocal I can think of.
I'm not sure that Timothy Schmit takes any lead vocal on songs that he didn't sing lead vocals on Eagles albums.
That certainly was the case for years
FWIW, I'm glad they remained a three- piece band. Although that may have implied that there was a limitation to their musical development, in fact they explored a fairly wide range of musical styles. Even the vocals developed greatly throughout the band's career.
That progression far exceeded what most bands with four or more members managed to acheive over a similar period IMHO (especially in the hard rock genre)
Quote from: David L on August 14, 2023, 12:56:53 PMI'm not sure that Timothy Schmit takes any lead vocal on songs that he didn't sing lead vocals on Eagles albums.
I don't think he does. But in the alternative history that I describe, a fourth member of Rush would sing vocals that he'd sung on studio albums, and I think an audience would accept it. Same thing.
Quote from: Slim on August 14, 2023, 01:02:38 PMQuote from: David L on August 14, 2023, 12:56:53 PMI'm not sure that Timothy Schmit takes any lead vocal on songs that he didn't sing lead vocals on Eagles albums.
I don't think he does. But in the alternative history that I describe, a fourth member of Rush would sing vocals that he'd sung on studio albums, and I think an audience would accept it. Same thing.
I disagree. Eagles were always a band with multiple lead vocalists
Kiss had 4 vocalists as well, I get your point, but was Rush not more of a band for a niche market? Having such a unique 3 piece with the chemistry they had I wonder if it had really added something. It was sort of a selling point - being a 3 piece band sounding like a quartet or quintet on stage even.
I'd hate to have seen them go all Asia
Just on the Rush vocals aspect.. I always have to laugh when Alex is shown doing I suppose backing vocals.. he must be so down in the mix that it hardly matters so you have to wonder why even bother with the pretence that's he's actually adding anything
Quote from: Fishy on August 14, 2023, 01:35:37 PMJust on the Rush vocals aspect.. I always have to laugh when Alex is shown doing I suppose backing vocals.. he must be so down in the mix that it hardly matters so you have to wonder why even bother with the pretence that's he's actually adding anything
He's the only real slacker in the band anyway...Neil pulling double duty on drums & lyrics, Geddy, well, just about everything, Alex 'just does guitars'.
Quote from: Fishy on August 14, 2023, 01:35:37 PMJust on the Rush vocals aspect.. I always have to laugh when Alex is shown doing I suppose backing vocals.. he must be so down in the mix that it hardly matters so you have to wonder why even bother with the pretence that's he's actually adding anything
Yes. There's a moment on
All The World's A Stage where you can hear his voice, near the end of In
The Mood but despite the fact that he always had a mic I can't hear him anywhere else at all on that album.
There was of course that bizarre rant thing he died, augmented by pseudo-jazz guitar on the R30 tour.
Alex, the dedicated dog whistler then. So pulling double duty after all.
Quote from: Slim on August 14, 2023, 01:44:24 PMThere was of course that bzarre rant thing he died, augmented by pseudo-jazz guitar on the R30 tour.
Yes one of those embarrassing moments when it was thought a good idea to share a 'band joke' with the fans. There were far too many of those in the latter years.
I remember watching the R30 DVD in a London cinema with my wife. I was squirming in my seat a little at that point, very uncomfortable
Quote from: Thenop on August 14, 2023, 01:41:16 PMHe's the only real slacker in the band anyway...Neil pulling double duty on drums & lyrics, Geddy, well, just about everything, Alex 'just does guitars'.
...and 'comedy' :-\
Quote from: David L on August 14, 2023, 02:05:50 PMQuote from: Thenop on August 14, 2023, 01:41:16 PMHe's the only real slacker in the band anyway...Neil pulling double duty on drums & lyrics, Geddy, well, just about everything, Alex 'just does guitars'.
...and 'comedy' :-\
Costumes maybe? Definitly wigs...
Quote from: Slim on August 14, 2023, 01:44:24 PMQuote from: Fishy on August 14, 2023, 01:35:37 PMJust on the Rush vocals aspect.. I always have to laugh when Alex is shown doing I suppose backing vocals.. he must be so down in the mix that it hardly matters so you have to wonder why even bother with the pretence that's he's actually adding anything
Yes. There's a moment on All The World's A Stage where you can hear his voice, near the end of In The Mood but despite the fact that he always had a mic I can't hear him anywhere else at all on that album.
There was of course that bzarre rant thing he died, augmented by pseudo-jazz guitar on the R30 tour.
All the live vids of subdivisions he always steps up to the mike at the "subdivisions" bit but I'm sure it's off the album so sampled/triggered
A sacrilegious thread which should be closed immediately with two day bans all round.😉
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on August 14, 2023, 02:38:50 PMA sacrilegious thread which should be closed immediately with two day bans all round.😉
Nothing's sacred anyway. It's all fair game ;D
Quote from: Thenop on August 14, 2023, 02:41:15 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on August 14, 2023, 02:38:50 PMA sacrilegious thread which should be closed immediately with two day bans all round.😉
Nothing's sacred anyway. It's all fair game ;D
You're two threads too far down.😂
Slim, is this a (very) belated April's fool? :P Another member? Rush? Doesn't compute. :P
Just imagine if they'd kept on John Rutsey alongside Neil, could've gone full on SUVVERN BOOGIE!
I suppose I should have expected a couple of negative responses but ultimately the music is the most important factor. Another member would have given Alex and Geddy a bit more space to work their magic, as well as adding some variety, flexibility and fresh inspiration to the band.
You know - when they read this thread, as I suppose they will - we must be Europe's pre-eminent Rush fan forum now - they'll be nodding their heads and thinking "yep, Slim's right again. We should have done that but by the time we realised it, it was too late".
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on August 14, 2023, 09:43:07 PMJust imagine if they'd kept on John Rutsey alongside Neil, could've gone full on SUVVERN BOOGIE!
....or Glitter Band
I appear to have been censored.😂
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on August 14, 2023, 10:57:10 PMI appear to have been censored.😂
Please see: http://betweenthewheels.net/index.php?topic=126.0 - second post. Many thanks for your understanding.
It's an interesting thought experiment this but the thing I would most have loved to have seen was a symphonic Rush show will full orchestra recorded for audio and video release at the Royal Albert Hall.
Of course, on the CA tour we got a very much scaled down version of that format which I thought worked extremely well. I'm convinced making it bigger for a whole gig would have enhanced the show in direct proportion.
I'll kind of agree with James in one respect: if (and it's a huge "if" of course) Ged and Al put another project together between them, I think it would most benefit from being a 5-piece band, ideally with Marco Minnemann on drums, a dedicated formidably talented keys player (ideally Rick Wakeman) and a distinctive vocalist with a velvety melodic voice and a range of no less than four octaves. But nobody springs immediately to mind on that score - any ideas?? :)
They'd need to give Patrick Moraz a call😀
Agree about the comedy shit they added to the latter shows, none of it was in the slightest bit humorous. When I joined the fanbase I saw them as technical kings and loved the complexity, lyrics, multiple instruments and being invited to shuttle launches. I expect they perceived themselves as being too distant to their fanbase and wanted to be a bit more down to earth, but they should have stayed distant and left us in awe.
Perhaps a vocalist who could play kryboards/violin or some such would have been nice for the last couple of albums and tours. Geddy really began to struggle towards the end with his vocals and he became quite difficult to listen to, I thought.
As I got very little from the last 2 albums it might have been nice if they'd gone off in a different musical direction.
Prior to that though I wouldn't have changed very much. It was great how they managed to change and develop their sound so much with a band that had stayed the same for all those years. I don't think they needed anyone else. The keyboards were there to fill. I think a virtuoso would have been a disruptive element. That might have been a good thing though for Snakes and Arrows and Clockwork Angels!
I agree with Matt that a full orchestra would have been enjoyable to see live, who knows even with a full on choir.
A discussion specifically about Clockwork Angels is for another thread of course, but I thought it was a pretty remarkable swan song, with an at times quite startling combination of prog technicality and melodic songcraft.
There is not a duffer on it to my mind.
Quote from: Nick on August 15, 2023, 07:55:55 PMAgree about the comedy shit they added to the latter shows, none of it was in the slightest bit humorous. When I joined the fanbase I saw them as technical kings and loved the complexity, lyrics, multiple instruments and being invited to shuttle launches. I expect they perceived themselves as being too distant to their fanbase and wanted to be a bit more down to earth, but they should have stayed distant and left us in awe.
Yes have go agree with all that..Peart had a distinctly wtf am I doing look thru all the sketches and Lifeson with his rants were quite plainly terrible ...
Stick to the songs boys...
I've shunted the last few posts of this thread into a new CA album discussion topic.
It's the first sentence of this thread where things start to go awry for me, specifically the phrase "much as we loved them". My love for this band is very much still alive and hopefully always will be. They were a constant in my life. They proved that any tweaks that were required could be handled in-house, and they did this remarkably well. With regards to symphonic performances, well there's nothing to prevent that from happening in the future if they so choose.
Also there's nothing in their history which suggests to me that they would be afraid to employ modern technology such as AI to enhance ageing vocal cords. Looking back at their career there's not much I would change. No band has a perfect discography but I'd still go back and buy them all again.
I think if their last album had been Fearless rather than CA they'd have been slaughtered so CA fits very nicely into the jigsaw and ends with the most emotional of goodbyes. Thank you guys.
Quote from: Nick on August 15, 2023, 07:55:55 PMAgree about the comedy shit they added to the latter shows, none of it was in the slightest bit humorous. When I joined the fanbase I saw them as technical kings and loved the complexity, lyrics, multiple instruments and being invited to shuttle launches. I expect they perceived themselves as being too distant to their fanbase and wanted to be a bit more down to earth, but they should have stayed distant and left us in awe.
I kind of get this though. After a few seconds in their presence at one of those daft meet & greets, I felt a bit deflated after discovering they were in fact just mere human beings. I think Geddy said about someone once, "never meet your heroes".
I dunno about that. I've met some of my heroes - Rick Wakeman, Graham Bonnet, Toby Jepson spring to mind. Oh, and the late, great, Norman Wisdom when I was a lad - I got his autograph in a little book which is now lost in the murky depths of time.
All were memorable happy experiences.
I've met Todd Rundgren a couple of times. and I still love the guy...
When I met Geddy and Alex in 1978, I couldn't believe how short Geddy was when he emerged from the stage door. All three of them were really nice though, although Neil had made it to the car before I could get him to sign the tour book.
I asked Alex if he'd use my pen, so I'd have a permanent souvenir of the occasion. "Sure", he said. But I lost it about two years later.
Perhaps a chance meeting somewhere would have been different. The meet & greet setup was very forced and artificial with a military style security guy barking out the do's and don'ts. It might have helped if I'd managed to get some sleep the night before but I was a nervous wreck so there was no chance of that. Would I prefer to have the experience or not? I couldn't honestly say. All I know is that it took a bit of the magic away in that queue that evening.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on August 31, 2023, 08:46:26 AMPerhaps a chance meeting somewhere would have been different. The meet & greet setup was very forced and artificial with a military style security guy barking out the do's and don'ts. It might have helped if I'd managed to get some sleep the night before but I was a nervous wreck so there was no chance of that. Would I prefer to have the experience or not? I couldn't honestly say. All I know is that it took a bit of the magic away in that queue that evening.
Which is exactly why I never did a M&G for which payment was required. Mind you, I would have liked to meet the Kiss guys, Paul & Gene back in the day. But not at the expense they are asking with all restrictions in place.
Anyway, I am much more comfortable talking to a drummer after a show, just chatting gear and stuff. I am not starstruck in any way, not for anyone.
Quote from: Thenop on August 31, 2023, 09:36:34 AMWhich is exactly why I never did a M&G for which payment was required. Mind you, I would have liked to meet the Kiss guys, Paul & Gene back in the day. But not at the expense they are asking with all restrictions in place.
On my first trip to New York in the summer of 1987, I saw Paul strolling along Columbus Avenue on my last day there. He had a gold Rolex Day-Date with an oversized band hanging from his wrist like a bracelet. I briefly pondered saying hello, but thought better of it. I just had a suspicion he'd be a bit cunty.
Quote from: Slim on August 31, 2023, 10:18:59 AMQuote from: Thenop on August 31, 2023, 09:36:34 AMWhich is exactly why I never did a M&G for which payment was required. Mind you, I would have liked to meet the Kiss guys, Paul & Gene back in the day. But not at the expense they are asking with all restrictions in place.
Probably would have been yes. He aged well though I get the impression.
On my first trip to New York in the summer of 1987, I saw Paul strolling along Columbus Avenue on my last day there. He had a gold Rolex Day-Date with an oversized band hanging from his wrist like a bracelet. I briefly pondered saying hello, but thought better of it. I just had a suspicion he'd be a bit cunty.
You should be a detective. I'd be so busy in my mind making sure it was definitely him I don't think I'd even notice his watch let alone identify it. I think I would say hello though. I reckon he'd be ok with that. Seems like he appreciates fans and especially if they made a brief polite exchange.
I'm quite happy they remained as a three-piece, it was part of the allure that drew me to them in the first place, was a major part of their identity and set them apart from many of their peers
Probably my favourite US band of all time are Blue Oyster Cult, where all five members sang and wrote (as well as other contributers like Sandy Pearlman/Richard Meltzer/Patti Smith/Michael Moorcock etc) and a few variations in instrument playing (Allen swapped keyboards for guitar at times with Eric doing the opposite, Albert would leave his drums behind and don a guitar on occasion)
Both bands produced a lot of excellent music and delivered great shows in their respective set-ups
Quote from: Slim on August 31, 2023, 10:18:59 AMQuote from: Thenop on August 31, 2023, 09:36:34 AMWhich is exactly why I never did a M&G for which payment was required. Mind you, I would have liked to meet the Kiss guys, Paul & Gene back in the day. But not at the expense they are asking with all restrictions in place.
On my first trip to New York in the summer of 1987, I saw Paul strolling along Columbus Avenue on my last day there. He had a gold Rolex Day-Date with an oversized band hanging from his wrist like a bracelet. I briefly pondered saying hello, but thought better of it. I just had a suspicion he'd be a bit cunty.
I met gene and Paul (and Eric carr and Bruce Kullick) in September 1988, after waiting politely at their hotel all day for them to show up. They really couldn't have been nicer. Paul came off the bus and said he needed to go to his room but would be down as quickly as possible - and he did come back and signed everything that everyone had. There were guys with several folders of cuttings and he signed it all. Gene was a gent as well. Eric and Bruce seemed shy and were a little quiet. A nice experience.