More apocalyptic news and panic porn reporting about wildfires; direct quote from ITV News: "As Southern Europe burns..".
FFS. No. >:(
Isolated parts of Rhodes have seen fires, yes, and tour operators have evacuated holidaymakers as a precaution - not because they're in any immediate danger as heavily implied by MSM news reports. Some of the evacuees have had their holiday curtailed, but many others have gone back to their resorts, as they have been declared safe by the Greek authorities.
In the south east of the island, Pefkos (where we had a wonderful holiday last year), and its main street's bars and restaurants has seen normal, bustling activity over the last couple of nights.
But all these pertinent facts are conveniently missing from the MSM's hysterical takes, which would have you think the infernal pits of Hades are engulfing the Dodecanese. ::)
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 24, 2023, 10:44:43 PMMore apocalyptic news and panic porn reporting about wildfires; direct quote from ITV News: "As Southern Europe burns..".
FFS. No. >:(
Isolated parts of Rhodes have seen fires, yes, and tour operators have evacuated holidaymakers as a precaution - not because they're in any immediate danger as heavily implied by MSM news reports. Some of the evacuees have had their holiday curtailed, but many others have gone back to their resorts, as they have been declared safe by the Greek authorities.
In the south east of the island, Pefkos (where we had a wonderful holiday last year), and its main street's bars and restaurants has seen normal, bustling activity over the last couple of nights.
But all these pertinent facts are conveniently missing from the MSM's hysterical takes, which would have you think the infernal pits of Hades are engulfing the Dodecanese. ::)
"Arson". Wouldn't be at all surprised if fires were set by fire service employees - lots of corruption in that part of the world.
This is a gift for those who want you to junk your gas boiler and buy an electric car 😡
Fire in Corfu is suspected arson - another small point being overlooked in many reports.
So out of the mainland and 4,000 islands there is a problem with wildfires in three areas - yet according to BBC Radio Four's Today programme this morning fires are "ravaging across Greece". ::)
Oh, and I see the deranged claims of Athens hitting 60 degrees Celsius (Sky News) have quietly fallen by the wayside.
Global warming is never, in itself, a direct cause of a fire as far as I'm aware. The problem is that the increase in temperatures that man-made climate change has brought about make wildfires more likely.
Quote from: Slim on July 25, 2023, 08:52:23 AMGlobal warming is never, in itself, a direct cause of a fire as far as I'm aware. The problem is that the increase in temperatures that man-made climate change has brought about make wildfires more likely.
Indeed - a relative nuance that's getting almost completely lost in the default catastrophism of MSM rolling news broadcasting.
I usually understand your points very clearly, Matt, even when I perhaps don't fully align with your opinions, but on this occasion I don't really get your take on this. Do you think the media are being unnecessarily harsh on the tourist industry? I don't know whether or not I'll ever make a 'plane journey in the future, but it must surely be an area where activity must be curbed. Cars, heating systems, appliances etc all seem to be arguably necessary evils in the modern world but aviation's use of fossil fuel must be an area which can be reduced substantially and probably deservedly.
Just a chaser on the above. Income tax should carry a climate levy. Until you've contributed for ten years, your passport should not qualify for air travel. Bus, train or ferries until your contribution has assisted scientific advances to some extent.
Edit: Children are exempt of course.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 01:09:42 PMJust a chaser on the above. Income tax should carry a climate levy. Until you've contributed for ten years, your passport should not qualify for air travel. Bus, train or ferries until your contribution has assisted scientific advances to some extent.
Edit: Children are exempt of course.
Get back in your nest
OK I'm hoping no-one minds, but - there's nothing wrong with discussing the above in the time-honoured Grumpy thread and I don't propose to move them because they're misplaced, but because I think we ought to have a climate change thread - and the last few posts here look like an excellent start.
My view briefly is that the media are indeed becoming sensationalist about this. The new weather maps showing areas of land in glowing black and red like an overdone pizza are an excellent example of this.
The trouble with this is that it's obvious nonsense to many, and thefore it lends a wholly undeserved and illusory credibility to cranks like Neil Oliver who has now gone on record as saying that "a rising volume of CO2 in the atmosphere is a consequence of a warming planet, not the cause of one" - which is absolute, weapons-grade bollocks.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 01:09:42 PMJust a chaser on the above. Income tax should carry a climate levy. Until you've contributed for ten years, your passport should not qualify for air travel. Bus, train or ferries until your contribution has assisted scientific advances to some extent.
Edit: Children are exempt of course.
I think that would be overly authoritarian, but I agree that doing nothing is not an option.
The real problem is that any measures like the above that we take here amount to little more than throwing the deckchairs over the side of the Titanic to try to prevent it from sinking. The Chinese are planning to build hundreds of new coal-fired power stations even now.
https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-new-coal-power-plants-per-week-in-2022/
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 12:30:19 PMI usually understand your points very clearly, Matt, even when I perhaps don't fully align with your opinions, but on this occasion I don't really get your take on this. Do you think the media are being unnecessarily harsh on the tourist industry?
No, not at all. 🙂 All I'm saying is that the broadcast coverage seems far less about giving a true and fair reflection of folks' actual experience on the ground, and much more about creating an almost Hollywood-style disaster movie narrative to keep people stuck to their channel.
It strikes me that if you're going to report responsibly about legitimate concerns over climate change, then sensationalising and embellishing the language used, whether by accident or design, isn't a great way to go about it; audiences aren't stupid - I hope.
Quote from: David L on July 25, 2023, 01:16:45 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 01:09:42 PMJust a chaser on the above. Income tax should carry a climate levy. Until you've contributed for ten years, your passport should not qualify for air travel. Bus, train or ferries until your contribution has assisted scientific advances to some extent.
Edit: Children are exempt of course.
Get back in your nest
Not an expression I'm aware of I'm afraid. What does it mean?
I'd also like to know .. I really do want to discourage personal attacks so I'd appreciate some clarification. Thanks.
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 25, 2023, 03:05:11 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 12:30:19 PMI usually understand your points very clearly, Matt, even when I perhaps don't fully align with your opinions, but on this occasion I don't really get your take on this. Do you think the media are being unnecessarily harsh on the tourist industry?
No, not at all. 🙂 All I'm saying is that the broadcast coverage seems far less about giving a true and fair reflection of folks' actual experience on the ground, and much more about creating an almost Hollywood-style disaster movie narrative to keep people stuck to their channel.
It strikes me that if you're going to report responsibly about legitimate concerns over climate change, then sensationalising and embellishing the language used, whether by accident or design, isn't a great way to go about it; audiences aren't stupid - I hope.
They might not all be stupid, but I'm guessing a majority won't listen unless it is sensationalised, as a frightening percentage are totally selfish and don't care. Even evidently about their children, of which I have none. Take my neighbours (please). Two massive 4x4s, large garden but no clothes line and the tumble dryer drones incessantly. Plastic lawns, regular holiday and business flights, and yes, three children. I sometimes feel selfish owning a car but my mileage is minuscule and I frequently shop using my bike which is basically a glorified trolley given the size of the panniers. Last winter I mostly burned logs for heat which is supposedly carbon neutral although I don't quite see how the figures stack up. I think ironically my generation and the very young get it, but there's a big middle slice of the population who aren't prepared to listen and would prefer to like YouTube videos of peaceful protestors being arrested or assaulted.
Quote from: David L on July 25, 2023, 01:16:45 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 01:09:42 PMJust a chaser on the above. Income tax should carry a climate levy. Until you've contributed for ten years, your passport should not qualify for air travel. Bus, train or ferries until your contribution has assisted scientific advances to some extent.
Edit: Children are exempt of course.
Get back in your nest
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 03:18:19 PMQuote from: David L on July 25, 2023, 01:16:45 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 01:09:42 PMJust a chaser on the above. Income tax should carry a climate levy. Until you've contributed for ten years, your passport should not qualify for air travel. Bus, train or ferries until your contribution has assisted scientific advances to some extent.
Edit: Children are exempt of course.
Get back in your nest
Not an expression I'm aware of I'm afraid. What does it mean?
Duh! I think it's a wasp joke. Stupid username I know.😁 And I mention my bike a few posts later.😂
Quote from: Slim on July 25, 2023, 03:30:39 PMI'd also like to know .. I really do want to discourage personal attacks so I'd appreciate some clarification. Thanks.
I think I just got the joke.😂
Quote from: Slim on July 25, 2023, 03:30:39 PMI'd also like to know .. I really do want to discourage personal attacks so I'd appreciate some clarification. Thanks.
I profoundly disagree with Mr Wasp's suggested curtailment of civil liberties. It was a tongue'in-cheek comment - no malice intended ;D
Quote from: David L on July 25, 2023, 05:11:36 PMQuote from: Slim on July 25, 2023, 03:30:39 PMI'd also like to know .. I really do want to discourage personal attacks so I'd appreciate some clarification. Thanks.
I profoundly disagree with Mr Wasp's suggested curtailment of civil liberties. It was a tongue'in-cheek comment - no malice intended ;D
Aww! So it wasn't a wasps' nest joke making my bike comment look a bit daft as well. Boo! I'm humiliated. Get him banned, James.😂😉
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 05:33:13 PMAww! So it wasn't a wasps' nest joke making my bike comment look a bit daft as well. Boo! I'm humiliated. Get him banned, James.😂😉
Well, it
was a wasps' nest joke
I didn't think I had been really hung up on climate change for very long, but I remembered I wrote something I posted on a friend's poetry site a while back. Turns out it was 2008 so I must have been more concerned than I can remember back then. It was probably slaughtered for being drink-fuelled, late night pretentious rubbish at the time so I leave myself wide open, thus.
Climate Change 1/11/2008
Prog rock bees decelerated by an abrasive atmosphere
Air once silken beats them half to death
In a gatefold Roger Dean travesty
A carnage of our hunter gatherer masters
Gather above to silhouette and mock our dying souls
Wings beating in lower register
Where once loved by humming schoolyard mimics
A searing sunblessed English orchard orchestration
Is now a deformed kazoo chant at asthmatic lips
Albeit a learned geriatric prophet's
(I'm glad I've no kids, I can rest in the sod)
Hot bees let us soothe you now
As you lie on the hallowed ground
Bending horizon, distorted at dawn
Chimneys beyond fill unfillable space
Ant like cars zip shiny harmless like beetles
If only though and not blow suck a trillion dead trees
From an eon ago and not coax and then roll
That dung from our benefactors
To where it may smile at the Earth and lie and be one again
So the cold and the hot once predictable allies
Muscle and wrestle like invincible foes
Damning the south with no reconcile
Blowtorch the north
Pines Larch Oak Birch its guile
A liquid submission no barrier could stand
No beaver evolved this flow could command
(And so this prayer)
Oh children of our future wilderness
May a handful of you thrive on a healing soil
10,000 years from now
And as you stare on dusted peaks afar
May our sadness echo still
And reach forgiving ears
Quote from: Slim on July 25, 2023, 08:52:23 AMGlobal warming is never, in itself, a direct cause of a fire as far as I'm aware. The problem is that the increase in temperatures that man-made climate change has brought about make wildfires more likely.
And in the Mediterranean summers are dry come what may under the current post ice-age climatic regime. This year may be hotter, but in itself that doesn't have to mean wild fires are more likely. The height of the tourist season might be a wild fire trigger, more people doing stupid things.
Apparently, the formidably astute, insightful ladies of Loose Women today claimed that Lindos (where we spent a tremendous day last year) is the "epicentre" of the fires.
It's actually one of the locations where folk are being taken to as a precaution and one of the safest places on the island of Rhodes.
Stay tuned for more nuggets of MSM misinformation tomorrow. ::)
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 03:32:30 PMI think ironically my generation and the very young get it, but there's a big middle slice of the population who aren't prepared to listen and would prefer to like YouTube videos of peaceful protestors being arrested or assaulted.
Those entitled, selfish protestors have caused misery. They haven't prevented one cubic millimetre of CO2 being released into the atmosphere and they deserve all of the suffering and grief they receive in return, and more.
Quote from: Slim on July 25, 2023, 11:07:33 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 25, 2023, 03:32:30 PMI think ironically my generation and the very young get it, but there's a big middle slice of the population who aren't prepared to listen and would prefer to like YouTube videos of peaceful protestors being arrested or assaulted.
Those entitled, selfish protestors have caused misery. They haven't prevented one cubic millimetre of CO2 being released into the atmosphere and they deserve all of the suffering and grief they receive in return, and more.
I hope we all live long enough to see that this is wrong. History will look very kindly upon them. Their actions (in general) compared compared to ours', wow. Please don't mention the confetti woman. There's always the bandwagoners.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 26, 2023, 11:09:55 AMI hope we all live long enough to see that this is wrong. History will look very kindly upon them. Their actions (in general) compared compared to ours', wow. Please don't mention the confetti woman. There's always the bandwagoners.
I think you probably need to take your TV to the local recycling centre
;)
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 26, 2023, 11:09:55 AMI hope we all live long enough to see that this is wrong. History will look very kindly upon them. Their actions (in general) compared compared to ours', wow. Please don't mention the confetti woman. There's always the bandwagoners.
A history that looked kindly on them would be false. What have they done except to cause grief and misery (and by the way, a bit more global warming)?
We must have the rule of law, not policy provoked by selfish, ignorant scumbags preventing mothers from taking their babies to hospital. Our democracy doesn't operate on the basis of demands made by small minorities backed by threats.
If that starts to work, how will you feel when (say) gangs of skinheads demand to have migrants shackled and deported in transport planes in return for allowing ambulances to go about their usual business?
Quote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 11:24:27 AMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 26, 2023, 11:09:55 AMI hope we all live long enough to see that this is wrong. History will look very kindly upon them. Their actions (in general) compared compared to ours', wow. Please don't mention the confetti woman. There's always the bandwagoners.
I think you probably need to take your TV to the local recycling centre
;)
Again, too subtle for me. Give me a couple of hours.
Quote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 11:47:27 AMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 26, 2023, 11:09:55 AMI hope we all live long enough to see that this is wrong. History will look very kindly upon them. Their actions (in general) compared compared to ours', wow. Please don't mention the confetti woman. There's always the bandwagoners.
A history that looked kindly on them would be false. What have they done except to cause grief and misery (and by the way, a bit more global warming)?
We must have the rule of law, not policy provoked by selfish, ignorant scumbags preventing mothers from taking their babies to hospital. Our democracy doesn't operate on the basis of demands made by small minorities backed by threats.
If that starts to work, how will you feel when (say) gangs of skinheads demand to have migrants shackled and deported in transport planes in return for allowing ambulances to go about their usual business?
Possibly a good plot line for a dystopian fiction novel, but not really an argument that I can compute. Mind you, I haven't figured out the TV quip yet either.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 26, 2023, 12:33:51 PMPossibly a good plot line for a dystopian fiction novel, but not really an argument that I can compute. Mind you, I haven't figured out the TV quip yet either.
Together with your (perviously expressed) anxiety over contracting Covid-19, your opinion on the 'Climate Crisis' indicates, to me, you are probably paying too much attention to MSM.
Leave the TV off 😉
Quote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 01:32:18 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 26, 2023, 12:33:51 PMPossibly a good plot line for a dystopian fiction novel, but not really an argument that I can compute. Mind you, I haven't figured out the TV quip yet either.
Together with your (perviously expressed) anxiety over contracting Covid-19, your opinion on the 'Climate Crisis' indicates, to me, you are probably paying too much attention to MSM.
Leave the TV off 😉
Like this activity, I use TV in short bursts for eye comfort reasons. My usual TV diet is along the lines of The Big Bang Theory or Cheers re-runs. I don't think I'm in any danger of being radicalised by the BBC anytime soon. If you live in the west of Scotland and have an interest in football, you quickly realise just how trustworthy BBC and other MSM is. It keeps me quite focused and alert and probably slightly paranoid about their activities. As for COVID, I tend to consume all I can find, probably as a hangover to being made vulnerable by IV steroids prior to lockdown. That takes a while to fade.
Oh dear, if true, this is unlikely to help EV sales.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/one-dead-in-cargo-ship-fire-electric-car-suspected-source-dutch-coastguard/amp_articleshow/102130440.cms
I think the 2030 ban on diesel/petrol cars is now a pipe-dream
I saw that myself a few minutes ago. Will take quite a few electric car journeys to offset the contribution to CO2 emissions that a ship with nearly 3,000 vehicles on board causes when it catches fire due to a battery fault.
Quote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 02:23:33 PMI saw that myself a few minutes ago. Will take quite a few electric car journeys to offset the contribution to CO2 emissions that a ship with nearly 3,000 vehicles on board causes when it catches fire due to a battery fault.
Indeed. Will be interesting to see if/how the BBC reports this tonight
;D
Quote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 02:40:11 PMQuote from: Slim on July 26, 2023, 02:23:33 PMI saw that myself a few minutes ago. Will take quite a few electric car journeys to offset the contribution to CO2 emissions that a ship with nearly 3,000 vehicles on board causes when it catches fire due to a battery fault.
Indeed. Will be interesting to see if/how the BBC reports this tonight
;D
Dutch TV all over this of course, happening right on our shores. The E car as a cause was mentioned as one of any possible causes. I bigger issue would be (in my opninion) fire safety in general on vessels such as these and the apparent difficulty getting off the vessel. People onboard were panicking, which is unfortunate and most of all: strange.
Clearly staff was not trained properly and life saving measures were not in order otherwise this could have been prevented. Not the fire, the personal injuries though.
Time will tell the actual cause of the fire, but yes batteries in general tend to be a source of ignition. Over here there's been a lot of talk about what we call 'scootmobiles'. Electrical carts for the elderly and handicapped. People often charge them indoors, leading to housefires when they ignite.
Let's what our daily news repots on it today, although they tend to be quite mild and factual. Depending on which broadcaster of course...
Quote from: David L on July 26, 2023, 02:04:17 PMOh dear, if true, this is unlikely to help EV sales.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/one-dead-in-cargo-ship-fire-electric-car-suspected-source-dutch-coastguard/amp_articleshow/102130440.cms
I think the 2030 ban on diesel/petrol cars is now a pipe-dream
Bicycles - pedal powered of course - now that's the answer :)
Don't do flying, 'cos flying is bad, m'kay
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/jetting-off-to-the-sun-the-adverts-are-selling-you-a-ticket-to-climate-disaster/ar-AA1epTBm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=debffbdf70554c749f2ab616766bff55&ei=35
My emphasis:
Quoteour chosen means of transport, flying, incrementally wrecks the climates, prospects and lives of the places being flown to.
Bizarre take.
Not flying wrecks the prospects and lives of the places being flown to - countless folk trying make a living in tourist destinations depend on the travel and tourism industry to keep them from falling into poverty. Whatever happened to the"Make Poverty History" narrative of the finger-wagging far left? It's been supplanted by the Current Thing.
It dawns on me that I shouldn't really post another opinion on this, being one of the culprits from a generation which helped to cause it. Trips abroad were a rare treat for me as I wasn't financially comfortable in my younger days, but at least I had the blissful comfort of ignorance to allow me to fully enjoy those Ibiza days and the very odd stag trip. Modern MSM stinks. Imagine spelling mistakes in BBC captions forty years ago. Heads would have rolled. I loved flying, mostly as I was a plane fanatic and the whole airport, flying part was my holiday highlight. But they're mostly two-engined planet hating monsters now. Not much different from the alien craft in War Of The Worlds. I think if I was younger a career in MSM might have suited me. You don't have to be any good. Anything further that I might offer the younger generations would be entirely patronising.
Aviation accounts for about 2.5% of global CO2 emissions which is quite a lot, but (I don't have the figures) at a guess a lot smaller than power generation and manufacturing.
What proportion of that figure is caused by passenger travel though? When I cycle past East Midlands Airport as I did on Tuesday for example, typically I see two or three freight aircraft on the tarmac. When the stuff that Amazon pushes through my door arrives, usually it's come from China, probably by air. But sea transport apparently causes nearly as much CO2 emission as aviation.
In any case some people travel by air a few times a month. Some people have their own planes so I honestly wouldn't give a second thought to going on holiday to Europe once or twice a year.
Just googled this:
https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions-from-transport
Interesting. I opened Flightradar24 and selected a few random larger jets. More often than not passenger aircraft (one Nippon Cargo) in my quick search. I take a couple of valuable lessons from those figures though. Be more vigilant when buying online or preferably buy from a store and collect myself. It also has to be said that the UK importing as much as possible from Europe rather than further afield seems logical, but that's a completely different can of worms.
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 27, 2023, 10:47:32 AMMy emphasis:
Quoteour chosen means of transport, flying, incrementally wrecks the climates, prospects and lives of the places being flown to.
Bizarre take. Not flying wrecks the prospects and lives of the places being flown to - countless folk trying make a living in tourist destinations depend on the travel and tourism industry to keep them from falling into poverty. Whatever happened to the"Make Poverty History" narrative of the finger-wagging far left? It's been supplanted by the Current Thing.
Trouble is, people don't tend to holiday in the true Poverty parts of the world, not even Grauniad readers.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 27, 2023, 11:27:18 AMImagine spelling mistakes in BBC captions forty years ago. Heads would have rolled.
Don't get me going on that!
The Beeb are always banging on about "Fact Checking" and "BBC Verify" yet they can't even proof-read their website articles or TV captions. I quite often see headlines on their website which are so badly worded that they mean the opposite of what they want to say.
Still, at least from watching Countryfile that it is a nailed on FACT that our seasons are all going to be warmer and summers drier. FAKT.
Oil protestors stop Tesla at petrol station ;D ???
https://www.facebook.com/scheifferbates/videos/1322937771962054/
Maui fires. Obviously climate change got the blame. Well, it's possible(?)that it was partly down to negligence.
There's a lawsuit against the power company who ignored warnings to shut down the power lines as a hurricane tore into the island. Apparently the fires were started by sparks from power lines. Additionally, reservoirs were not maintained full, recommendations to thin tinder-dry, non-native grass was ignored and evacuation sirens were not employed for fear of driving people towards the flames.
Like most catastrophes, it could well have been an unlucky combination of a number of human errors, plus a couple of natural ones, that proved disastrous. Unlikely to hear any of the former discussed on MSM.
;D ;D ;D
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/charging-an-electric-car-is-now-more-expensive-than-petrol/ar-AA1cFVMQ
Turns out more old, polluting vehicles are exported to poor countries than are scrapped.
As we did with emissions from manufacturing, we are doing the same by exporting vehicle emissions to some of the poorest countries most affected by changes in the climate.
What a racket
Interesting view from Jacob
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-13239459/Smart-meters-faulty-Britain-gas-electricity-bills.html
;D ;D ;D