Having recently read Geddy Lee's unkind words about Tai Shan, I treated myself to a trip through Hold Your Fire.
Truly magnificent, and yes, Tai Shan does stand out for the wrong reasons.
But the immersive sound, the incredible drumming, possibly Neil's best lyrical work all combine to create what could have been their best album. Tai Shan let's the album down big time. Such a jar following the driving force-of-nature that is Turn The Page.
But maybe that was the idea, to give the listener a break?
Anyhow - HYF is still up there in my top Rush listens.
It is their last truly great album. It was all down hill from there but what a run it was.
Yep pretty much firing on all cylinders here save for Tai Shan which is awful.. although the signs were there on Power Windows to beware closing tracks with the awful Mystic Rhythms which spoiled an otherwise perfect album..
It's their first truly pants album. Been going down for a few years by now. Derived some enjoyment from the tour.
Never got on with this album. My least favourite from the eighties. Not sure whether its the keyboards or the production that let it down but the sound feels soft or cushioned like it was recorded in a studio full of cotton wool
Quote from: pdw1 on March 26, 2022, 08:22:46 PMIt is their last truly great album. It was all down hill from there but what a run it was.
That's my view, as well. There are for me two good records after HYF, these being
Test for Echo and
Clockwork Angels. But neither is really important in the bigger picture.
HYF, last great Rush album, I even like Tai Shan.*
I think Rush started making longer albums and the quality went down because of it. I think there is 40mins of good music on most albums after this...just. The only album I really like after this though is Counterparts, there are some strong songs towards the end, actually just looking up the songs its a great album.
*I like hippy stuff like Deuter and when Jon Anderson goes all mystic and Tai shan fits in pretty well with that. Wasn't Geddy being tongue in cheek with his comments on Tai Shan. Slightly pulling Neils leg?!
I couldn't even get through it when I first bought it on vinyl. For me it had all gone wrong with Power Windows and then HYF was even worse. I can value it today though, but that 80s period was the worst - my favourite era was, and always will be, from Rush to Moving Pictures.
Some great tracks on there, TSS, Mission, Force Ten, but Tai Shan, second nature and high water saw an increasing number of duds creeping in. Power windows was "all killer no filler"
I did like the album art and inner sleeve though.
Very fond memories of this era, album, tour, artwork and everything associated with it. This was the time I rediscovered Rush, and have HYF to thank for it.
Its lush
I've always thought of it as being a sort of sequel to Power Windows. I don't think there's another two records in the canon that function as a pair like that.
An easy, and huge improvement would have been just to leave off those last two, awful tracks. High Water is even worse than Tai Shan. I've never been able to listen to it without a sense of disbelief. It's just dead. The vocals don't quite fit on either of those tracks; it's embarrassing listening to Geddy trying to make a vocal melody out of them in the verses.
I don't really like Time Stand Still much either. It's a disposable radio tune at best.
Apart from the above though, it's a very strong record. It really came alive for me on the tour; I was at one of the Show of Hands gigs and Mission and Lock and Key especially were brilliant; really powerful live tunes. I think I did two gigs on that tour, would have to dig out my old ticket stubs to confirm.
I think Power Windows is stronger, although I was hugely confused and disappointed by it when it came out. But I was mostly listening to the Smiths, Prefab Sprout, The Blue Nile et al by the mid '80s anyway.
I always thought the production was the problem with HYF, the guitars are to safe. On A Show of Hands the guitars come to life which then bring the songs to life. the Mission gets a proper end with Alex playing the extended guitar solo which is fabulous.
The songs do/did work well live, although I find the guitar tone on the VHS/DVD of ASOH incredibly "bright"
Interesting comment from Slimmers re PoW. I was in an out of Rush when PoW came out, and the first time I heard a song form it was on the Friday rock show end of year countdown of the top albums, and Big Money was the track they played
I found Big Money a really difficult track to enjoy first listen through, so PoW didnt get the attention it deserved, until HYF came out. I loved HYF from minute one, revisited PoW and now its my favourite Rush Album
Listened to it in full on Saturday while cycling, I know a few people give Mystic a hard time, but even that isnt a terrible song. But the other 7 tracks are just wonderful, I think Emotion Detector and Territories are massively under the radar as well
Mystic Rhythms is a very interesting one for me. I really hated it for being plodding and boring until R30, when the combination of the performance and the rear-projected video absolutely made it come alive for me. Now I find it dramatic and compelling.
I remember watching Pratt during Mystic Rhythms on r30. Someone had told me I would be mesmerized by his performance. think it was Beardy
He was right
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 28, 2022, 10:46:31 AMI always thought the production was the problem with HYF, the guitars are to safe. On A Show of Hands the guitars come to life which then bring the songs to life. the Mission gets a proper end with Alex playing the extended guitar solo which is fabulous.
HYF has a 'brightness' and lightweight touch to the production that ruins it for me (although I liked it at the time). The 'tone' of the production on Power Windows is far heavier. They just slid too far towards pop on HYF, production-wise. That guitar sound - like a nylon-stringed toy - just awful. And the less said about the last two tracks, the better. Lock And Key is probably the best on here IMHO - great live
Quote from: Slim on March 28, 2022, 11:10:34 AMMystic Rhythms is a very interesting one for me. I really hated it for being plodding and boring until R30, when the combination of the performance and the rear-projected video absolutely made it come alive for me. Now I find it dramatic and compelling.
Better than both Tai Shan or High Water but still a duffer in my book
To me Power Windows is a work of genius and Hold Your Fire doesn't come close to matching it.
Nothing like the drop in quality as Yes managed 10 years or so earlier when they came up with the truly awful Tormato after the genius of Going For the One but still a drop.
I actually like the first couple of tracks, Force 10 has a good feel to it and Time Stand Still is a well composed pop song, that benefits from Aimee Mann's vocal.
Open Secrets has a Coldplay feel to it to me and is passable, but the likes of Lock and Key, Mission, and Turn the Page suffer from the keyboard/production issue for me. They just sound too cloying to these ears.
Less said about Tai Shan and High Water the better.
I don't think there's a single song on there that would be worthy of inclusion on the previous album.
Quote from: David L on March 28, 2022, 11:17:59 AMHYF has a 'brightness' and lightweight touch to the production that ruins it for me
Not as bright as what was to follow in Presto.
I like Presto..there I said it...
I really like Counterparts too. RTB starts strongly but I'm not sure I like anything on it after the first 2 songs
Counterparts good, RTB..not so
As I said previously HYF had the odd dud but the dud ratio rose on the subsequent albums. Certainly RTB to SNA.
The change of sound and feeling from HYF to presto was massive, there was a massive change from MP to Signals, except I guess I like MP, signals and HYF and I don't much like Presto.
HYF provided the soundtrack to a heady time during my years in secondary school so I have many precious and (hopefully) indelible memories wrapped up in it.
What helped with that immeasurably, of course, is that it's 50 minutes of mostly outstanding melodic rock tracks, chock-full of lush synths (I was originally disappointed that the keys had actually been scaled back compared to the masterpiece that is PoW), with pristinely polished production by Peter Collins (why, why why wasn't he brought in for GUP and Presto?!) and the boys arguably at the peak of their technical powers.
Where I think HYF fared better than PoW is that somehow the transition of its songs to a live setting worked rather more successfully; ASOH is a testament to that, I think.
Tai Shan is clearly the weakest track on HYF, and I'd agree has an incongruity about it not just in the context of the album but also in terms of it being a Rush song at all - but I honestly don't mind it and I find it perfectly palatable. As I do High Water - I like its cinematic feel and for me it rounds off the album quite neatly.
I'd give HYF KKKKK, just like Kerrang! did back in the day. :)
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 01, 2022, 12:53:08 AMI'd give HYF KKKKK, just like Kerrang! did back in the day. :)
That must've been when it was called Kerring!
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 01, 2022, 12:53:08 AMHigh Water - I like its cinematic feel and for me it rounds off the album quite neatly.
What he said. Nowt wrong with High Water to my ears. A very nice album closer.
Quote from: R6GYY on April 01, 2022, 01:15:49 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on April 01, 2022, 12:53:08 AMHigh Water - I like its cinematic feel and for me it rounds off the album quite neatly.
What he said. Nowt wrong with High Water to my ears. A very nice album closer.
The run-out groove is more satisfying to my ears ;D ;)
For me the worst be of HYF is the first 75 seconds of second nature, which sounds like chris de burgh or phil collins soft rock rubbish.
The bass guitar is brilliant on HYF, guitar is way down on the mix, even when Alex rocks out. Take Prime mover 4.min 15 seconds in Alex plays a brilliant power chord sequence and its watered down. It could be moment of real power to close the song.
Listening to HYF this morning on the original CD (not the remaster) it really is a brilliant album, really clever interplay between all 3 musicians on every song with some of Niels best lyrics. They are very different Rush of PW, its clever grown up rock music, they have lost some of their fire and replaced it with maturity. Listening to Lock and Key now and the ending is pure prog, but its not in your face just clever. Now Mission is playing there is a section at the beginning with Drums keyboards and bass pedals absolutely love it, and its even more powerful when Alex joins in. And lyric wise Tai Shan and High water fit in with the themes of the album perfectly, yes Tai shan is very different but I like it very much I like the change of pace, it also has a brilliant guitar line in the middle. High water is very meditative.
Its a classic rush album you can hear they have really worked on the compositions. With maybe some of Alex's best guitar soloing on this album very Terje Rypdal.
Defo five KKKKKs
Quote from: David L on April 01, 2022, 04:27:35 PMQuote from: R6GYY on April 01, 2022, 01:15:49 PMQuote from: Matt2112 on April 01, 2022, 12:53:08 AMHigh Water - I like its cinematic feel and for me it rounds off the album quite neatly.
What he said. Nowt wrong with High Water to my ears. A very nice album closer.
The run-out groove is more satisfying to my ears ;D ;)
HYF is the first Rush album I bought on CD. The run-out groove is the only reason I'd think about getting a vinyl copy.
QuoteHYF is the first Rush album I bought on CD. The run-out groove is the only reason I'd think about getting a vinyl copy.
It was also my first Rush CD purchase and quite possibly my second ever CD after Floyd's AMLOR
I'm not sure whether this partly effected how I felt about it on release, but I clearly remember enjoying it a lot more then I had done PoW
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 01, 2022, 12:53:08 AMHYF provided the soundtrack to a heady time during my years in secondary school so I have many precious and (hopefully) indelible memories wrapped up in it.
What helped with that immeasurably, of course, is that it's 50 minutes of mostly outstanding melodic rock tracks, chock-full of lush synths (I was originally disappointed that the keys had actually been scaled back compared to the masterpiece that is PoW), with pristinely polished production by Peter Collins (why, why why wasn't he brought in for GUP and Presto?!) and the boys arguably at the peak of their technical powers.
Where I think HYF fared better than PoW is that somehow the transition of its songs to a live setting worked rather more successfully; ASOH is a testament to that, I think.
Tai Shan is clearly the weakest track on HYF, and I'd agree has an incongruity about it not just in the context of the album but also in terms of it being a Rush song at all - but I honestly don't mind it and I find it perfectly palatable. As I do High Water - I like its cinematic feel and for me it rounds off the album quite neatly.
I'd give HYF KKKKK, just like Kerrang! did back in the day. :)
hear hear !!
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 01, 2022, 12:53:08 AMHYF provided the soundtrack to a heady time during my years in secondary school so I have many precious and (hopefully) indelible memories wrapped up in it.
Sat my English O Grade on the day of the Hold Your Fire tour show at the SECC, needless to say I didn't really have my mind on my exam (got a C).