Ukraine - Russian invasion.
Bad bad day, I hoped the cold war was over, but this day has been coming for 10 years.
Yes it's a historic moment, for all the wrong reasons. I was pleased to hear the level of unanimity in the Commons earlier. You know it's an unusual day when you hear Boris Johnson compliment Ian Blackford on his statesmanship and wisdom, without a hint of sarcasm.
And Sir Keir's remarks about the coming cost, to the people of this country, of defending the principles he and the PM referred to were also well made. I'm afraid a cold wind will blow through the world economy and we'll feel it here.
Have to wonder if Putin has really thought this through? He may gain control of Ukraine but he could well face an insurgency, covertly backed by the West, for years. And of course military forces in the NATO countries closest to his borders will be strengthened.
I see the Ruskies have taken control of Chernobyl. They did their damndest to solve the problems they created there and hopefully they are trying to protect it from war damage.
I fear for the Baltic states and the NATO trigger. Then again the geographical anomaly that is Kaliningrad looks a worrying target from the Russian point of view.
And every time Trump speaks he just proves himself to be even more odious.hard to believe that would even be possible
Love this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-60525996
this woman deserves a nobel peace prize
God bless those Ukrainian soldiers who told a Russian warship to 'go fuck yourselves' before being bombed. Die with your boots on.
Heartbreaking seeing what is happening in real time. And scary.
I was out on my bike today and listened to the news for about four hours straight; nothing but Ukraine of course. Really jaw-dropping stuff. Apparently they've been cracking open crates of rifles and handing them out to Ukrainan citizens in the street. Asking people to fight the Russian armour with petrol bombs. People begging for a NATO air exclusion zone.
A woman from the Ukrainian parliament was interviewed, she's never fired a gun before in her life but she's been given a Kalashnikov and a quick training session today, and she's determined to use it.
I recall both the UK and US sent special forces as "advisors" to help the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the '80s; I wonder if we'll do the same again in Ukraine if there's a prolonged occupation.
We have to somehow give Putin a way of backing down. I listened to an interesting article on the Cuba crisis where Cuban missiles were removed and the removal Turkish missiles was the offset, we don't have that option in this crisis. Is he more dangerous if cornered?
Yes I agree that's the worry - and the irony is that the harder it becomes for him to subjugate Ukraine, the more dangerous he potentially becomes. Ukraine seems to be an emotive subject for him.
There must be some acceptable way that he can be claim to have profited for his audience at home.
Quote from: Slim on February 28, 2022, 04:11:40 PMThere must be some acceptable way that he can be claim to have profited for his audience at home.
Does he not have pretty much complete control over State media - they'll obediently pump put any old horsesh!t claim he makes.
How much of the proletariat buy it is another matter.
He could stop the war and become Putin the peacemaker.
I say keep it up Putin, anything that keeps those Meerkat adverts off the telly is well worth it :)
Massive, historic increase in military spending in Germany.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60549916
Let's hope they're not marching along the Champs-Élysées in ten years' time!
Quote from: Slim on February 28, 2022, 11:12:22 PMMassive, historic increase in military spending in Germany.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60549916
Let's hope they're not marching along the Champs-Élysées in ten years' time!
And the EU agreeing to send weapons and fighter jets to Ukraine as well as linking it up to its electricity network and speeding its accession to the EU.
Not sure it has ever worked with such haste!
One in the eye for Putin.
Good to see Switzerland moving away from its long held neutrality to match EU economic sanctions too
I was a bit alarmed to note that roughly 1/3 of people who reacted this morning to a satellite pic of the Russian convoy near Kiev on the GB News Facebook feed did so with the ;D smiley. Looking at the comments it seems that a lot of people think the war is fake; here's one for example:
Where is the snow??? This looks like its been shot in the summer...we are being played ...I've seen a report from reuters which show evidence that they are using photos from other conflicts ...one peice of footage shows zelensky ...apparently this photo footage was taken from a film zelensky starred in...He was an actor ...don't believe all you/we are being told ...and seeing....its all part of the wicked propaganda being spewed out of their lying mouths.
I think the lack of snow and ice is one of the things that is slowing the russians down. If the ground is not frozen hard then its a mud bath and impossible to move off road.
Question?
Would you stay in Kiev and fight or would you Flee?
Me, I would like to say "stay" but I can not fight against 1000LB bombs (I'm only 185lbs) so I would flee and fight in the underground.
A dead body can not fight. The Russians are going to flatten Kiev. I would fight though. I'm fit and can fight.
Number of companies or individuals sanctioned for links to Putin:
🇪🇺 EU 446
🇨🇭 Switzerland 351
🇺🇸 USA 148
🇬🇧 UK 24
Come on Johnson! Get your finger out! Any reason for the stalling?
On a more positive note, the UK government has without question led the way with assistance to Ukraine. We've been training and provisioning the Ukraine military since 2015 when the EU was doing nothing. The Germans even refused permission to fly over their airspace, and blocked other NATO countries from transferring weapons to Ukraine.
We had to embarrass Germany and Italy in getting support for the SWIFT suspension.
Boris Johnson has become a hero to the Ukrainian people, and he received a standing ovation when he visited a Ukrainian Cathedral in London the other day. Zelensky has thanked him personally for his support. Boris is actually the only NATO leader to visit NATO countries on the Ukrainian border.
Interesting analysis, to me it looks like the Eu has led the way, the U.K. is very much on the sidelines. Massive amounts of defensive weaponry sent to the Ukraine and an open refugee policy shows how the EU has strengthened itself.
German and French leaders have met and spoken with Putin in the flesh, none of that for our clown of a leader. Ukraine, Georgia and Albania now all looking to join the EU.
Looks like we walked out of the best club in town. Farage and his mob are looking increasingly isolated, I can see the U.K. rejoining the EU far faster than we thought if we survive this.
Quote from: Nick on March 03, 2022, 09:25:10 PMGerman and French leaders have met and spoken with Putin in the flesh, none of that for our clown of a leader.
And that's managed precisely what?
QuoteUkraine, Georgia and Albania now all looking to join the EU.
Giz some dosh, go on, giz some dosh
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on March 03, 2022, 09:48:58 PMQuote from: Nick on March 03, 2022, 09:25:10 PMGerman and French leaders have met and spoken with Putin in the flesh, none of that for our clown of a leader.
And that's managed precisely what?
QuoteUkraine, Georgia and Albania now all looking to join the EU.
Giz some dosh, go on, giz some dosh
A fashion for long tables? Once the Ruski money has exited the U.K. we may well be in that queue.
Quote from: Nick on March 03, 2022, 09:54:34 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on March 03, 2022, 09:48:58 PMQuote from: Nick on March 03, 2022, 09:25:10 PMGerman and French leaders have met and spoken with Putin in the flesh, none of that for our clown of a leader.
And that's managed precisely what?
QuoteUkraine, Georgia and Albania now all looking to join the EU.
Giz some dosh, go on, giz some dosh
A fashion for long tables? Once the Ruski money has exited the U.K. we may well be in that queue.
But with all the dosh we can hold back we've got a better grip on their short and curlyskis :)
Quote from: Hugh on March 03, 2022, 09:19:51 PMI think Boris might just have grown up in the last few days. I wouldn't wish the responsibility that rests on his shoulders on my worst enemy. If this opens his eyes to the realisation that his front bench requires a massive Spring clean then my respect for him would grow immensely. I think there's a decent man in there somewhere if he kicks the kidology into touch and recognises that he was indeed blinded by his blind ambition. Lose the three stooges please Boris.
Well I'm pleased to see a bit of respect for the PM here, albeit grudging - but this notion that he's not quite "grown up" by virtue of his occasionally irreverent personality is a wishful-thinking caricature, in my view.
He's been the "clown" who won an 80 seat majority and got Brexit done in a matter of months. He was the "buffoon" who led one of the most successful vaccine rollouts in the world, and led his country out of the worst of the pandemic sooner than any other Western nation.
I don't think all of his front bench are stellar but I can't doubt that we have the most talented and capable government I've known for a very long time.
Quote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 08:13:16 PMNumber of companies or individuals sanctioned for links to Putin:
🇪🇺 EU 446
🇨🇭 Switzerland 351
🇺🇸 USA 148
🇬🇧 UK 24
Come on Johnson! Get your finger out! Any reason for the stalling?
Still think this question needs answering. With so many Russian oligarchs having made their homes here and invested so much of their ill gotten gains in the UK why has its response been so poor compared to the likes of the US and the EU?
Quote from: Nick on March 03, 2022, 09:25:10 PMInteresting analysis, to me it looks like the Eu has led the way, the U.K. is very much on the sidelines. Massive amounts of defensive weaponry sent to the Ukraine and an open refugee policy shows how the EU has strengthened itself.
German and French leaders have met and spoken with Putin in the flesh, none of that for our clown of a leader. Ukraine, Georgia and Albania now all looking to join the EU.
Looks like we walked out of the best club in town. Farage and his mob are looking increasingly isolated, I can see the U.K. rejoining the EU far faster than we thought if we survive this.
Couple of things here - firstly, there are many reasons that I don't think this country will want to rejoin the EU, but I don't think the current crisis has a bearing on it either. If anything, to be fair, there are negatives in Georgia and Albania wanting to join up. I hear Moldova is keen, as well. It's not the sort of prospect to soften your average Brexiteer's heart. And I believe we would have led the European effort to assist Ukraine even if we hadn't left the EU.
After all we were in the EU in 2015 when we started providing training to the Ukrainian military. I don't know of another EU country that was doing that at the time.
I'm genuinely surprised to see dissent from the view that the UK has led the effort to assist Ukraine because I honestly thought this was commonly understood, but in any case while our example may have helped the other European countries get their arses into gear, it's only a positive thing that the EU countries have started to help now, and it's not a competition.
But for the record, the US and UK have been providing military assistance since 2015. The UK has also sent military forces to the Eastern Mediterranean and Estonia to reinforce NATO's front line there. I have to credit France for contributing military assistance as well since 2021. But then the UK, and to a lesser degree France are Europe's pre-eminent military powers; it comes with the territory and with being key players in NATO.
Ultimately NATO is considerably more important in this than the EU.
Think we trained some of the Belarus forces as well.
Quote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 10:26:29 PMQuote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 08:13:16 PMNumber of companies or individuals sanctioned for links to Putin:
🇪🇺 EU 446
🇨🇭 Switzerland 351
🇺🇸 USA 148
🇬🇧 UK 24
Come on Johnson! Get your finger out! Any reason for the stalling?
Still think this question needs answering. With so many Russian oligarchs having made their homes here and invested so much of their ill gotten gains in the UK why has its response been so poor compared to the likes of the US and the EU?
I honestly don't know what the real figures are; my own information was that over 100 people and entities had had their assets frozen by Feb 24th. So this notion of a poor response sounds a bit like spin to me. There's no doubt in any case that we've been pushing for harder sanctions on the international stage. Worth remembering also that the EU is a collection of countries so aggregating their effort, welcome though it may be, into a single score is not really helpful.
It might well be something like wanting to ensure that proper culpability is established, rather than just targeting people for being Russian.
Just read that two Kremlin associates were sanctioned this evening. It's a work in progress, as it must be.
This article (from 2019) doesn't seem to suggest that the UKs contributions are anything special compared to others...?
https://www.csis.org/analysis/not-contributing-enough-summary-european-military-and-development-assistance-ukraine-2014
Quote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 11:07:11 PMThis article (from 2019) doesn't seem to suggest that the UKs contributions are anything special compared to others...?
https://www.csis.org/analysis/not-contributing-enough-summary-european-military-and-development-assistance-ukraine-2014
A2 in that piece, an answer to "How much military aid does Ukraine receive from European countries and Canada?" seems to suggest otherwise to me.
Quote from: Slim on March 03, 2022, 10:49:07 PMQuote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 10:26:29 PMQuote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 08:13:16 PMNumber of companies or individuals sanctioned for links to Putin:
🇪🇺 EU 446
🇨🇭 Switzerland 351
🇺🇸 USA 148
🇬🇧 UK 24
Come on Johnson! Get your finger out! Any reason for the stalling?
Still think this question needs answering. With so many Russian oligarchs having made their homes here and invested so much of their ill gotten gains in the UK why has its response been so poor compared to the likes of the US and the EU?
I honestly don't know what the real figures are; my own information was that over 100 people and entities had had their assets frozen by Feb 24th. So this notion of a poor response sounds a bit like spin to me. There's no doubt in any case that we've been pushing for harder sanctions on the international stage. Worth remembering also that the EU is a collection of countries so aggregating their effort, welcome though it may be, into a single score is not really helpful.
It might well be something like wanting to ensure that proper culpability is established, rather than just targeting people for being Russian.
Just read that two Kremlin associates were sanctioned this evening. It's a work in progress, as it must be.
Agreed re the EU if individuals are counted more than once across countries. Is the figure derived from the EU as an organisation or the contributions from individual countries. I'll concede that the data is vague enough to cast doubt on it.
Quote from: Slim on March 03, 2022, 11:13:12 PMQuote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 11:07:11 PMThis article (from 2019) doesn't seem to suggest that the UKs contributions are anything special compared to others...?
https://www.csis.org/analysis/not-contributing-enough-summary-european-military-and-development-assistance-ukraine-2014
A2 in that piece, an answer to "How much military aid does Ukraine receive from European countries and Canada?" seems to suggest otherwise to me.
I think the entire article suggests that the EUs overall contribution has been just as valuable if not more so.
Personally I don't think our PM's competency and potential EU membership have any bearing on the evils of the Ukrainian Situation caused by the Russians, but I found this here online article https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/26/imf-review-ukraine-debt-gdp-linked-warrants-reform/ don't know anything about the people who wrote it, but it's reasonably interesting.
Wikipedia also say that countries perceived as Oligarchies are: Russia, Ukraine and the USA.
And finally, I'm sure Albania would rather join the UK then the EU as we gave them Norman Wisdom.
Quote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 11:38:27 PMQuote from: Slim on March 03, 2022, 11:13:12 PMQuote from: dom on March 03, 2022, 11:07:11 PMThis article (from 2019) doesn't seem to suggest that the UKs contributions are anything special compared to others...?
https://www.csis.org/analysis/not-contributing-enough-summary-european-military-and-development-assistance-ukraine-2014
A2 in that piece, an answer to "How much military aid does Ukraine receive from European countries and Canada?" seems to suggest otherwise to me.
I think the entire article suggests that the EUs overall contribution has been just as valuable if not more so.
I think the article suggests that the EU has been a valuable source of humanitarian and developmental assistance, although the US contribution (one country compared to twenty-seven) dwarfs it. I was really referring to assistance germane to Ukraine's defence effort.
UK liked the rich Russians (i can not spell oligarks?!) coming in the UK because it swelled the UK economy and on paper made us a richer country.
Not only on paper, but not all of them are implicated in the Kremlin's nefarious activities.
Quote from: Slim on March 04, 2022, 11:07:27 AMNot only on paper, but not all of them are implicated in the Kremlin's nefarious activities.
Not many who didn't make their money incredibly quickly capitalising (see what I did there) from the fall of communism based almost entirely on their position they held at the time of its fall.
Dodgy as feck to a man!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch#:~:text=During%20the%201990s%2C%20once%20Boris,the%20state's%20transition%20to%20a
No fly zone and NATO getting in involved.
Putin says if NATO gets in involved there will be nuclear war. That means Putin will destroy Russia. Is he going to risk that? Is it worth risking it?
If NATO are not going to get involved and not risk the threat of Nuclear war, then we NATO needs to defend the borders of the West, lots and lots of troops and up to date weapons and cybersecurity arrangements.
Not much sign of Russian air superiority, plenty of images of Russian choppers and jets being bought down by stingers and manpads.
Also plenty of Russian tanks and supply vehicles being taken out by javelins and nlaws (made in Belfast) as well as Ukrainian (Turkish made) drones.
The economic sanctions appear to be having an effect. Putin has declared them an act of war.
I hadn't heard that, but on Wednesday or Thursday I heard a very bleak scenario posited by one of the various military strategists interviewed by 5 Live. His fear was that the sanctions might prove frustrating enough to provoke Putin into a minor attack on one of the NATA countries in the region, perhaps a token military target in Poland.
If that happens, all bets are off!
But my hope is that internal pressure in Russia will force him to back down somehow. Even something like Facebook going off the air there must have an effect.
I think Boris will take this opportunity to rejoin the Eu and I think the U.K. population would go with the decision. United Europe and all that. For Boris it's a blessing to reverse the nightmare that was Brexit.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
Quote from: Nick on March 05, 2022, 07:28:51 PMI think Boris will take this opportunity to rejoin the Eu and I think the U.K. population would go with the decision. United Europe and all that. For Boris it's a blessing to reverse the nightmare that was Brexit.
What?
With the threat of unstable third world countries like Ukraine, Albania and Georgia involved?
We don't want to be part of the EUSSR!!!
Interesting that Ukraine is in the process of updating its road signage - and their using the British Transport Font
https://www.roads.org.uk/blog/ukraine
Perhaps this is fake news and hopefully it won't be the case for much longer but apparently, at the moment, there are more Russian Oligarchs living in the UK than Ukranian refugees.
Quote from: dom on March 07, 2022, 09:09:57 PMPerhaps this is fake news and hopefully it won't be the case for much longer but apparently, at the moment, there are more Russian Oligarchs living in the UK than Ukranian refugees.
Good. They've got more money :)
(For the moment..)
Putin should just say he's accomplished all his goals and withdraw. It's the only get out he has.
Quote from: Nick on March 09, 2022, 03:24:27 PMPutin should just say he's accomplished all his goals and withdraw. It's the only get out he has.
I'm sure that's what most people would like to happen but at this point I think he may have more options than Ukraine/NATO
The sanctions have gone further than I thought they would; not really healthy having a huge society isolated like that. Even the MacDonalds / Coke / Spotify / Facebook deprivation etc must be causing some internal pressure based on their effect on ordinary individuals, let alone the banking / commercial measures.
Quote from: Slim on March 09, 2022, 04:42:26 PMThe sanctions have gone further than I thought they would; not really healthy having a huge society isolated like that. Even the MacDonalds / Coke / Spotify / Facebook deprivation etc must be causing some internal pressure based on their effect on ordinary individuals, let alone the banking / commercial measures.
I agree and it will only get worse as any Western companies left in Russia will have to leave now or be forever seen as pariahs.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-credit-rating-downgrade-pushes-it-on-brink-of-bankruptcy-161939852.html
I think the Ukrainians are getting more desperate to bring the west into the war. Something looks weird about the maternity hospital attack in Mariupol. That's a big building, completely wrecked - three dead? No curtains at any windows and no sign of fresh bedding or medical equipment. Probably not in use.....as a hospital anyway
BBC are wetting themselves
I see Chelsea's assets have been frozen.
Tory party next? 😂
Quote from: David L on March 10, 2022, 07:23:21 AMI think the Ukrainians are getting more desperate to bring the west into the war. Something looks weird about the maternity hospital attack in Mariupol. That's a big building, completely wrecked - three dead? No curtains at any windows and no sign of fresh bedding or medical equipment. Probably not in use.....as a hospital anyway
BBC are wetting themselves
Yup. It had been cleared out by the Azov Battalion, so they could attack glorious Russian liberators.
https://www.rt.com/russia/551620-mariupol-maternity-hospital-bombing/
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on March 10, 2022, 01:05:26 PMQuote from: David L on March 10, 2022, 07:23:21 AMI think the Ukrainians are getting more desperate to bring the west into the war. Something looks weird about the maternity hospital attack in Mariupol. That's a big building, completely wrecked - three dead? No curtains at any windows and no sign of fresh bedding or medical equipment. Probably not in use.....as a hospital anyway
BBC are wetting themselves
Yup. It had been cleared out by the Azov Battalion, so they could attack glorious Russian liberators.
https://www.rt.com/russia/551620-mariupol-maternity-hospital-bombing/
No! You must believe the BBC! Reported in MSM:
Dr Oleksandra Scherbet, a neurologist from Lusk, said "A lot of women, newborns and medical staff were killed - this has to be stopped. It's horrible"Perhaps the evidence will emerge later :-\
Truth, it's a Moving Target - unlike the Sov Convoy heading for Kiev.
Putin makes me want to vomit, ive seen tougher candy floss than Putin sitting behind his table like scared rabbit.
Letting his army kill innocent people, disgusting man.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on March 10, 2022, 02:40:42 PMTruth, it's a Moving Target - unlike the Sov Convoy heading for Kiev.
There is a theory that the convoy was set up to see if NATO would attack it.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 10, 2022, 02:44:01 PMLetting his army kill innocent people, disgusting man.
Indeed but we've let our army kill innocent people.........quite recently too
yes and it completely wrong, but we did not target hospitals it is against the Geneva convention. So it is a false equivalence. The Russians targeted hospitals all the time in Syria to bring down the moral of the opposition and they also used chemical weapons up to 17 time in Syria. The British are nothing like the Russians.
BTW Mr Slikk2112 I pinged you a message, pls check "My Messages" at the top of the page when you can. Ta.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 10, 2022, 02:44:57 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on March 10, 2022, 02:40:42 PMTruth, it's a Moving Target - unlike the Sov Convoy heading for Kiev.
There is a theory that the convoy was set up to see if NATO would attack it.
Nice for the soldiers!
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 10, 2022, 03:03:32 PMyes and it completely wrong, but we did not target hospitals it is against the Geneva convention. So it is a false equivalence. The Russians targeted hospitals all the time in Syria to bring down the moral of the opposition and they also used chemical weapons up to 17 time in Syria. The British are nothing like the Russians.
???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/20/balkans9#:~:text=Three%20people%20were%20killed%20when,in%20the%20hospital%20were%20demolished.
I don't deny the Russians are ruthless but I suspect we're being played as the propaganda war also escalates
Quote from: Slim on March 10, 2022, 03:04:21 PMBTW Mr Slikk2112 I pinged you a message, pls check "My Messages" at the top of the page when you can. Ta.
Oooh good, POWER!!!!
Quote from: David L on March 10, 2022, 03:20:08 PMQuote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 10, 2022, 03:03:32 PMyes and it completely wrong, but we did not target hospitals it is against the Geneva convention. So it is a false equivalence. The Russians targeted hospitals all the time in Syria to bring down the moral of the opposition and they also used chemical weapons up to 17 time in Syria. The British are nothing like the Russians.
???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/20/balkans9#:~:text=Three%20people%20were%20killed%20when,in%20the%20hospital%20were%20demolished.
I don't deny the Russians are ruthless but I suspect we're being played as the propaganda war also escalates
You linked a news story about NATO bombing a hospital in Kosovo in 1999 which was obviously an accident.
If your point is that the Ukraine hospital bombing incident from this week could also be accidental I agree, except that the Russians have now told us that it was deliberate (on the grounds that it was being used by Ukrainian paramilitaries). But more importantly they've already hit a number of civilian targets.
I think punishing the general populace is part of the strategy.
Yup. It had been cleared out by the Azov Battalion, so they could attack glorious Russian liberators.
https://www.rt.com/russia/551620-mariupol-maternity-hospital-bombing/
Azov Battalion??? Who they? How come I've not heard of them from our tax-funded state broadcaster? ;D ;D ;D ;)
Victoria Nuland admits that the US has been collaborating with Ukraine at biological research facilities......a bit like they were doing in China ;D
https://www.opindia.com/2022/03/usa-admits-biolabs-in-ukraine-says-biological-attack-russias-fault/
US administration and CIA up to their necks in it......again
David you are quoting RT! do you believe RT? and from the Opindia link, (and opindia they Indians abstained from the UN resolutions.)
"On Tuesday, the US government's Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland testified before a Senate Foreign Relation Committee hearing on Ukraine in Washington, DC, and said that the United States was working with Ukraine to prevent invading Russian forces from seizing biological research material. The State Department also stated that it was concerned that Russian forces are trying to gain control of biological research facilities within Ukraine. The committee was set to examine Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the worldwide response."
Do you want the Russians to have more chemical weapons? you do realise you are living in the UK where you can say more or less what you want, in Russia you can only say what Putin wants, do you realise Putin is Evil? The BBC is independent of the the government, Slim often criticises the BBC for slagging of the government, you do realise Putin's friends have given the Tories up to £12 billion quid. ? Justa wondering what side you are on. The Russians have invaded an independent country that been around since the 11th century and are systematically destroying it and killing innocent people, and if we (the west and nato) get involved they are threatening nuclear war and oblivion.
It is not a case of the Russians have any good in them they are a nasty bunch of Fascists.
Putin like Hitler is a nasty piece of work, all because Hitler liked dogs does not mean he was good.
Some times I think DavidL is a russian bot
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 11, 2022, 05:01:08 PMPutin like Hitler is a nasty piece of work, all because Hitler liked dogs does not mean he was good.
Hitler liking dogs proves he was EVIL ;D
of course it does.
So much footage on social media. Not that I think NATO should be involved but I think they would easily smash the Russians, all their artillery would be taken out via planes, drones etc. Much of the Russian equipment looks old and their airforce has not really shown any massive superiority. The stingers, nlaws,manpads and Javelins seem to be the weapons of choice.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 11, 2022, 05:01:08 PMDavid you are quoting RT! do you believe RT? and from the Opindia link, (and opindia they Indians abstained from the UN resolutions.)
"On Tuesday, the US government's Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland testified before a Senate Foreign Relation Committee hearing on Ukraine in Washington, DC, and said that the United States was working with Ukraine to prevent invading Russian forces from seizing biological research material. The State Department also stated that it was concerned that Russian forces are trying to gain control of biological research facilities within Ukraine. The committee was set to examine Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the worldwide response."
Do you want the Russians to have more chemical weapons? you do realise you are living in the UK where you can say more or less what you want, in Russia you can only say what Putin wants, do you realise Putin is Evil? The BBC is independent of the the government, Slim often criticises the BBC for slagging of the government, you do realise Putin's friends have given the Tories up to £12 billion quid. ? Justa wondering what side you are on. The Russians have invaded an independent country that been around since the 11th century and are systematically destroying it and killing innocent people, and if we (the west and nato) get involved they are threatening nuclear war and oblivion.
It is not a case of the Russians have any good in them they are a nasty bunch of Fascists.
Putin like Hitler is a nasty piece of work, all because Hitler liked dogs does not mean he was good.
I think it helps to understand the situation by considering the possible causes. This, obviously includes the Maidan Uprising of 2013 which led to the ousting of president Vicktor Yanukovich. That act was predicated oh his refusal to sign an agreement with the EU (according to polling in 2013, less than half the population agreed it would be good for Ukraine) after turning towards Moscow.
The east of Ukraine has always contained a population that was more alighned with Russia and that helped Russia reclaim influence in some areas and take Crimea in 2014.
The civil war in the Donbas region has gone on for 8 years and the Ukrainians have bombarded the area with EU-supplied weapons constantly, killing many civilians in the process. This is where the Azov Battalions come in. An ultra-national (Nazi) group that were assimilated into the Ukrainian military in order to try to defeat Russian-backed separatists in the region (Ukraine has long had an issue with nationalism).
The EU and the US have spent billions trying to secure influence over Ukraine in the meantime. This includes dangling the carrot of both EU and NATO membership...albeit at some future date. Since the dissolution of the USSR, NATO has expanded towards Russia's borders. This may be a good thing but it feeds into Russian paranoia and could be argued is a provocation. It also reneges on promises made after the fall of the Soviet Union.
The whole s**t show is a failure of EU and US foreign policy, that's not excusing the evil and paranoid mindset of the Russian government who, undoubtedly would exploit any opportunity to restore historic borders if they could.
War is disastrous. The people of Ukraine that are being killed, injured and fleeing from the horror are pawns in a game being played by greater powers IMHO. Control of Ukraine would be extremely beneficial to the US, both strategically and economically. It is full of minerals and gas.
The situation is far more complicated and nuanced than we are led to believe from the news reports.
As to the question of 'the truth'.I was not particularly inspired by Victoria Nuland's response about the bio-labs question, clearly she struggled to find a 'palatable' response. We have to admit that the US regularly tells porkies or hides the truth. Has done for years.
Russia would probably have been satisfied with Ukraine as a neutral neighbour without access to nuclear weapons. The US felt threatened by having communist Cuba on their doorstep and tried to overthrow the regime with a CIA-sponsored coup leading to the Cuban-missile crisis.
Russia is run by a terrible regime that cares little for its people but I think you have to examine the west's role in this and its disastrous foreign policy over the last thirty years.
This is interesting. May not be right or accurate but it is an interesting view:
https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf
What we all want is for the war to end and the desperate plight of the Ukrainian people to improve. Politicians, everywhere have failed them.
I've only been reading up the Ukrainian situation since the war started and I admit, I may have misinterpreted things and drawn the wrong conclusions. Of course, always happy to be educated/corrected.
I hope this makes my position clearer. To me, it doesn't seem to be black and white but hugely complicated with lots of strands.
By the way, my local district council and MP have benefitted from fairly significant Russian donations
2 points spring to mind in your analysis
- 30 years is a very short time in history. You need to take at least a good 100 years look at this region, in fact probably a 1000 years or more.
- you mention Russia, the US, NATO & EU and very little about the locals; Ukrainians, Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Slovaks, Romanians, Jews, Germans and probably a few others. Do their thoughts and wishes not count?
Quote from: Nick on March 11, 2022, 07:14:24 PMSo much footage on social media. Not that I think NATO should be involved but I think they would easily smash the Russians, all their artillery would be taken out via planes, drones etc. Much of the Russian equipment looks old and their airforce has not really shown any massive superiority. The stingers, nlaws,manpads and Javelins seem to be the weapons of choice.
I think you're right about NATO's technical advantage in conventional weaponry, but - an analyst interviewed the other night on 5 Live or possibly LBC gave a very bleak assessment of what would happen if NATO became involved directly.
Firstly, he supposed, the unity that's presently apparent among the Western nations would dissolve "within seconds" with people taking to the streets to protest. Secondly there's a strong chance that the Russians would use their "battlefield" nuclear munitions - not the ICBMs, but the nuclear-tipped artillery and bombs - against NATO military targets in the region. Apparently they have a lot of these, and he concluded that they would probably win the war, albeit at a huge cost to both sides.
I suppose that the prospect of the Russians being beaten with conventional weapons only makes a nuclear exchange more likely.
Quote from: pdw1 on March 12, 2022, 10:07:05 AM2 points spring to mind in your analysis
- 30 years is a very short time in history. You need to take at least a good 100 years look at this region, in fact probably a 1000 years or more.
- you mention Russia, the US, NATO & EU and very little about the locals; Ukrainians, Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Slovaks, Romanians, Jews, Germans and probably a few others. Do their thoughts and wishes not count?
Yes, to dismiss something like Holodomor, the Stalin-induced starvation of the early thirties would be wrong as it must have had a huge effect on the Ukrainians' attitude to the Soviet regime.
As to your second point, of course self-determination and the will of the people is crucial but I think it has to be acknowledged that their 'will' is often sponsored by outside, sometimes malign, powers.
For NATO or the west to get involved is putting a stick in to a bees nest, apart for Russia nuclear capabilities they have nothing, NATO would splat the Russians in Ukraine, but where does that lead? Does NATO call Putin's bluff?
Obviously Putin's made a massive mistake, because he was thinking the Ukrainians were going to be partying in the streets when Putins tanks went rolling in.
He needs to be given a way out to save face, fast. I am hoping China will start to negotiate a peace. Why the UN has not put a peace keeping force together is beyond me. It could be non NATO. Biden needs to arrange a world wide peace conference. Crikey Trump looks really stupid now.
On a wider point of EU and NATO membership of Ukraine, it is up to the Ukrainians if they want to join them, Putin has lost the soft power war- because Russia is run like a fascist state and the oligarchs have all the money and it is not a properly functioning society. Just think if those billions were given to the people of Russia. Russia would turn in to a technological power house. Also the EU is such a massive success and countries want to join. With Putin invading Ukraine he's shown old eastern block countries why they want to and should join NATO. the Ukrainians did not want the Finland option, which is bowing down to a dictator they wanted to join the peace of the west and Liberal democracies.
The only person wanting this war is Putin and 1970s Soviet Union, 99.9999999% of people want peace.
Remember Stalin killed more people than Hitler. Both are Evil people. You have to look at history to see where we are but in the end we are where we are with Russia- fighting for its survival and its influence in the world and with the old eastern block countries. Ukraine is fighting for its independence and its place in a modern western society.
Russia can not let the Ukrainians win.
Interesting scenario.
Croatian officials criticized Nato today for what they described as a slow reaction to a military drone crashing into a field near a student dormitory in the Croatian capital, the Associated Press is reporting.
The Soviet-era Tu-141 "Strizh" reconnaissance drone apparently flew from the Ukrainian war zone through the airspace of three Nato member states – Romania, Hungary and Croatia – before coming down in the capital city of Zagreb, damaging about 40 parked cars. No one was hurt.
Both Russia and Ukraine have denied launching the drone, but military experts say Ukraine is the only known current operator of the Tu-141.
Nato, which exists in part to help protect and alert its member states from surprise occurrences such as this, said the alliance's integrated air and missile defense had tracked the drone's flight path. But Andrej Plenković, Croatian prime minister, said Nato reacted only after questions were posed by journalists.
"We cannot tolerate this situation, nor should it have ever happened," Plenković said while visiting the crash site.
"This was a pure and clear threat and both Nato and the EU should have reacted," he said. "We will work to raise the readiness not only of us but of others as well. "
Reading some analysis on Putin's request for help from the Chinese.
Its seen as desperate and unlikely to provide a positive response. Xi being so fixated on economic growth that he wouldn't want to risk any sanctions that would impact that. Also a weaker Russia (that would result from defeat or a messy outcome) would be an opportunity for China.
It is desperate as Putin realises this and yet still asked. Desperate as the war is not yet 3 weeks old and he is already seeking help. Desperate as seeking help is surely seen as a sign of weakness.
Uncomfortable for Putin too in that conversations with an ally have been made public so quickly.
The tank looks like becoming obsolete. Too many easy wins from the Javelin etc. The future is drones
I heard a scathing assessment of the performance of the Russian military in Ukraine on 5 Live late this afternoon; under-trained and under-motivated was the conclusion and that's one reason that the Russians are apparently asking the Syrians to help. Will see if I can upload the conversation later.
Does Putin want a way out by now, I wonder? The economic situation in Russia is becoming dire, his military on the ground are under-performing, people are protesting at home and it must be obvious now that the Ukrainians would put up a fight even if their country were to be occupied.
If the tone of his speeches over the last couple of days is anything to go by, I don't think he does.
Crazy as the Russians flagged the location on a Newscast.
Quote from: Nick on March 24, 2022, 06:01:06 PMCrazy as the Russians flagged the location on a Newscast.
Must be a Special Needs Military Operation...
When I heard about the landing craft getting hit on the news earlier, it made me wonder - if the Americans could target Russian assets with laser-guided munitions and make it look like the Ukrainians had done it, would they do that?
I don't think they've done that here though, the landing craft was a long way from NATO territory.
But there might well be "special advisers" working with the Ukrainians already on the ground, in Ukraine. It's greatly to the West's advantage to take out as much Russian hardware as possible, both militarily and politically.
Quote from: Slim on March 24, 2022, 10:13:39 PMBut there might well be "special advisers" working with the Ukrainians already on the ground, in Ukraine. It's greatly to the West's advantage to take out as much Russian hardware as possible, both militarily and politically.
I would think there have been western "special advisers" working with the Ukrainians since 2014..and possibly before that
(Hunter Biden was one that springs to mind ;D )
"Fortifying, strengthening the spines quills of the Ukrainian porcupine to make it indigestible to Russia"
He just can't help himself ::)
Another great quote today:
"the strategic, operational and tactical incompetence of the Russian military has been stunning"
General John R Allen, NATO ISAF, 2011-2013 - ironically...... an American
If you watch the video after the initial explosion another Russian ship trys to get out of the way, you really do get the feeling the Russians are inept.
Russians remind me of the school bully, if you stand up to them they fall apart. Putin really has misjudged the west.
Despite all the social media images of destroyed Russian tanks you have to remember they have 12500 of them! Makes the mind boggle.
Quote from: Nick on March 25, 2022, 05:25:32 PMDespite all the social media images of destroyed Russian tanks you have to remember they have 12500 of them! Makes the mind boggle.
Well, that's what they told us they had ;D ;)
Joe Biden. What an abject performance this crisis has produced from the leader of the free world. All over the place
True. I hope the Americans never have such an awful dilemma again.
Quote from: David L on March 28, 2022, 07:16:07 AMJoe Biden. What an abject performance this crisis has produced from the leader of the free world. All over the place
Apparently in Poland his speech went down very well.
It was a no brainer between Trump and Biden. Proven by Trump trying to bring down democracy in the USA. Yes of course both were poor candidates, just like in the UK- "Boris" and Corbyn both utterly dreadful.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 28, 2022, 10:31:03 AMQuote from: David L on March 28, 2022, 07:16:07 AMJoe Biden. What an abject performance this crisis has produced from the leader of the free world. All over the place
Apparently in Poland his speech went down very well.
It was a no brainer between Trump and Biden. Proven by Trump trying to bring down democracy in the USA.
You don't believe the collusion between US MSM and the Biden campaign to suppress the Hunter Biden story before the election and interference with democracy?
Even if that's true and I can't be bothered to check, though it does sound credible to be fair - there's a huge difference between a media outlet or number of media outlets suppressing or spinning a story to try and influence the public and the President of the United States trying to overcome an election result in which he's already been defeated.
Trump should be in prison now.
Quote from: Slim on March 28, 2022, 11:14:47 AMEven if that's true and I can't be bothered to check, though it does sound credible to be fair - there's a huge difference between a media outlet or number of media outlets suppressing or spinning a story to try and influence the public and the President of the United States trying to overcome an election result in which he's already been defeated.
Trump should be in prison now.
Perhaps in the cell next to 'Sleepy' and son? ;D
For the integrity of the democratic process in the US, I know which one I'd consider more important. And you could argue one begat the other
Do mean the affair that meant Trump broke the law and ended up impeaching himself.
And where is Trumps tax returns, the person who lost the election was Trump. He lost the womens' and Black vote.
Slim is right Trump should be in prison. Hopefully they will eventually put him there.
Quote from: David L on March 28, 2022, 11:06:13 AMQuote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 28, 2022, 10:31:03 AMQuote from: David L on March 28, 2022, 07:16:07 AMJoe Biden. What an abject performance this crisis has produced from the leader of the free world. All over the place
Apparently in Poland his speech went down very well.
It was a no brainer between Trump and Biden. Proven by Trump trying to bring down democracy in the USA.
You don't believe the collusion between US MSM and the Biden campaign to suppress the Hunter Biden story before the election and interference with democracy?
I don't believe in fairy tales
Quote from: pdw1 on March 28, 2022, 10:20:17 PMI don't believe in fairy tales
;D ;D
Many do though, including previous non-believers, The New York Times
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/25/4-big-takeaways-from-nyts-attempt-to-control-the-hunter-biden-narrative/
Nefarious Ukrainian connections also clear:
https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/
https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/hunter-biden-emails-show-leveraging-connections-with-dad-to-boost-burisma-pay/
Trump had to go, by whatever means possible
I'm beginning to think that Kamala Harris's 'handlers' are intentionally keeping her away from the media during this crisis (?) Very absent
Maybe its all true, but Trump has flushed so much shit down the proverbial toilet he can not be defended. People try to make out Trump is an outsider and how far can that be from the truth. He's a multi billionaire real estate magnet, who is a celebrity. Who lost the national vote the first time around.
& The man oversaw won of the worst CV19 pandemic responses the world.
I would rather have Kamila Harris in charge than the grinning idiot Mike Pence. What I am more worried about is UK politics going the way of USA, divisive with shameless liars.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on March 29, 2022, 03:31:53 PMMaybe its all true, but Trump has flushed so much shit down the proverbial toilet he can not be defended. People try to make out Trump is an outsider and how far can that be from the truth. He's a multi billionaire real estate magnet, who is a celebrity. Who lost the national vote the first time around.
& The man oversaw won of the worst CV19 pandemic responses the world.
I would rather have Kamila Harris in charge than the grinning idiot Mike Pence. What I am more worried about is UK politics going the way of USA, divisive with shameless liars.
Not defending him, Rufus, just pointing out that if you want a light shone on Trump's business and tax affairs, you should consider it only fair for a light to be shone on Biden's also. That didn't happen, even when there were some pretty large red flags
yes I agree David, but no light was shone on trump and he showed his hand when instigated the attack on the white house.
Trump and populism shows the failings of democracy and people just voting for their tribe. It happens in this country every election.
Sounds like the Russian troops in the North of Ukraine are just being redeployed to the Eastern front.
British missile shoots down Russian helicopter. This is proxy war with NATO now. Lets hope Putin dies of cancer real soon.
Quote from: Nick on March 30, 2022, 08:46:10 PMSounds like the Russian troops in the North of Ukraine are just being redeployed to the Eastern front.
So, if you take the 'alternative narrative', the Kyiv assault was always a ploy to draw Ukrainian troops away from the south east which is the region of most importance to Russia
No they ballsed it up and need to find an alternative win position.
Quote from: Nick on April 02, 2022, 10:11:17 PMNo they ballsed it up and need to find an alternative win position.
It would be better if there was no-win option for Russia but likely they will gain some territory.
The best indication of failure would be Putin to be replaced IMHO. Still time for that to happen but probably unlikely.
If Zelensky surrenders Donbass, Azov will not be happy, apparently they threatened his life when that was considered earlier.
Shocking scenes of civilian killings in Bucha.
Quote from: Nick on April 03, 2022, 09:13:46 AMShocking scenes of civilian killings in Bucha.
That was the UKranonazi Azov battalion doing it to their own side. The Russian special military operation operatives have not harmed any civilians.
Quote from: David L on April 03, 2022, 09:11:17 AMQuote from: Nick on April 02, 2022, 10:11:17 PMNo they ballsed it up and need to find an alternative win position.
It would be better if there was no-win option for Russia but likely they will gain some territory.
The best indication of failure would be Putin to be replaced IMHO. Still time for that to happen but probably unlikely.
If Zelensky surrenders Donbass, Azov will not be happy, apparently they threatened his life when that was considered earlier.
Apparently it will end up a no win war with Russia and Ukraine fighting over the territory for years, this is what Putin wants.
The Americans would be happy enough with that. They'll keep providing the necessary weapons for as long as the Ukrainians want to continue degrading Russian military assets with it.
Quote from: Rufus_the_dawg on April 03, 2022, 11:31:05 AMQuote from: David L on April 03, 2022, 09:11:17 AMQuote from: Nick on April 02, 2022, 10:11:17 PMNo they ballsed it up and need to find an alternative win position.
It would be better if there was no-win option for Russia but likely they will gain some territory.
The best indication of failure would be Putin to be replaced IMHO. Still time for that to happen but probably unlikely.
If Zelensky surrenders Donbass, Azov will not be happy, apparently they threatened his life when that was considered earlier.
Apparently it will end up a no win war with Russia and Ukraine fighting over the territory for years, this is what Putin wants.
Why?
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on April 03, 2022, 11:05:59 AMQuote from: Nick on April 03, 2022, 09:13:46 AMShocking scenes of civilian killings in Bucha.
That was the UKranonazi Azov battalion doing it to their own side. The Russian special military operation operatives have not harmed any civilians.
Are you certain of that? Sounds like it comes from a putin apologist/sympathiser
Quote from: David L on April 03, 2022, 01:15:41 PMQuote from: Rufus_the_dawg on April 03, 2022, 11:31:05 AMQuote from: David L on April 03, 2022, 09:11:17 AMQuote from: Nick on April 02, 2022, 10:11:17 PMNo they ballsed it up and need to find an alternative win position.
It would be better if there was no-win option for Russia but likely they will gain some territory.
The best indication of failure would be Putin to be replaced IMHO. Still time for that to happen but probably unlikely.
If Zelensky surrenders Donbass, Azov will not be happy, apparently they threatened his life when that was considered earlier.
Apparently it will end up a no win war with Russia and Ukraine fighting over the territory for years, this is what Putin wants.
Why?
Because he needs war for his own popularity at home and if they can not settle the borders and keep fighting Ukraine can not join the EU or Nato
Very Orwellian
Quote from: dom on April 03, 2022, 05:20:38 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on April 03, 2022, 11:05:59 AMQuote from: Nick on April 03, 2022, 09:13:46 AMShocking scenes of civilian killings in Bucha.
That was the UKranonazi Azov battalion doing it to their own side. The Russian special military operation operatives have not harmed any civilians.
Are you certain of that? Sounds like it comes from a putin apologist/sympathiser
https://www.rt.com/russia/553231-bucha-war-crimes-allegations-denied/
There's some very interesting stuff on RT, the comments are pure comedy gold - or would be if they weren't so scary.
And when Russia switches to a Gold backed Rouble it's going to be a game changer. The Dollar based western economies will collapse.
https://www.rt.com/business/553099-gold-backed-ruble-gamechanger-west/
Interesting observation regarding MSM's reporting of the situation on Mariupol last night. Having consistently failed to mention the very existence of the Azov Battalion and dismissing any Russian talk of Nazis as "nonsense", news reports quoted an Azov commander and then stated that the 'group' had been used by Putin to justify his "de-Nazifying" rhetoric.
At the same time the Battalion's insignia was displayed on our TV screens.
"does that look like a swastika to you, dear?" ;D
I think it was far more important to get everyone to add the Ukrainian flag to their Facebook profiles early doors and puff Zelensky up to rock star status.
Putin is still a c**t, obviously but our media only tell us what they want to. Manipulators
Yes and Putin says he is sticking up for "Russian speaking peoples" and how many "Russian speaking peoples" have died because of the consequence of his mad mind.
The Ukraians appear to have sunk the "Moscow" , flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
I think it's seriously damaged anyway. I feel simultaneously hearted and disheartened, somehow. Might only be a matter of time before Putin blames NATO and then things might escalate a bit.
Quote from: Slim on April 14, 2022, 10:31:40 AMI think it's seriously damaged anyway. I feel simultaneously hearted and disheartened, somehow. Might only be a matter of time before Putin blames NATO and then things might escalate a bit.
I'm sure the Ruskies will hit some cities hard with missiles in revenge. Double edged sword.
Quote from: Nick on April 14, 2022, 09:46:46 AMThe Ukraians appear to have sunk the "Moscow" , flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
It is on a special underwater mission to denazify the seabed.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on April 14, 2022, 12:58:51 PMQuote from: Nick on April 14, 2022, 09:46:46 AMThe Ukraians appear to have sunk the "Moscow" , flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
It is on a special underwater mission to denazify the seabed.
Apparently still afloat but heavily damaged.
any pictures yet?
Quote from: Nick on April 14, 2022, 01:57:49 PMQuote from: Nickslikk2112 on April 14, 2022, 12:58:51 PMQuote from: Nick on April 14, 2022, 09:46:46 AMThe Ukraians appear to have sunk the "Moscow" , flagship of the Black Sea fleet.
It is on a special underwater mission to denazify the seabed.
Apparently still afloat but heavily damaged.
They think it's all under, it is now!!!
GOTCHA!!!
If the magazines blew up like the news reports are saying that would have been a very big explosion. See picture below this is of a WW1 battleships magazines blowing up.....and yes I know pedants out there different type ship and shells instead of missiles.(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/DA2D/production/_89835855_hmsqueenmarygetty.jpg)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/6c5445636ca6f79541322602a2fced6471c54daf/0_449_3816_2289/master/3816.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=e864e71d2c9e69e8010a79ce4b32f3bd)
Moskva stricken and sinking. Fake news apparently. Really the the ship is doing very well on mars!
This makes for uneasy reading.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10761337/The-British-banker-proud-Putins-public-enemy-No-1-Bill-Browder-blames-war-Cameron-May.html
Death sentence for British fighters
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61726733
Awful but I have to say, they must have known the risk.
Quote from: Slim on June 09, 2022, 04:22:45 PMDeath sentence for British fighters
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61726733
Awful but I have to say, they must have known the risk.
If you're minting a bargaining chip......make it a big one!
Sentenced by the DNR so not technically Russia.
Nice of the Russians to give a Goodwill Gesture and withdraw from Snake Island. Top blokes :)
I'd like to see Bernie Ecclestone taking one for Putin too, he's only a small chap so the bullet should go through and get Putler as well.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on July 01, 2022, 12:53:42 PMNice of the Russians to give a Goodwill Gesture and withdraw from Snake Island. Top blokes :)
I'd like to see Bernie Ecclestone taking one for Putin too, he's only a small chap so the bullet should go through and get Putler as well.
Especially if he's shot through the head - seems like there would be very little in there to reduce its velocity
Just say the bullet did do for both of them would it make much of a difference? It seems to me that a lot of the Russian population support Putin and his war on Ukraine. Would his replacement not just keep the war going?
Quote from: dom on July 01, 2022, 01:14:08 PMIt seems to me that a lot of the Russian population support Putin and his war on Ukraine.
Because if they didn't they'd be taking a bullet for him :) :(
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on July 02, 2022, 09:23:48 PMQuote from: dom on July 01, 2022, 01:14:08 PMIt seems to me that a lot of the Russian population support Putin and his war on Ukraine.
Because if they didn't they'd be taking a bullet for him :) :(
I hope that's the reason why. In Ireland we have seen the small Russian community here showing its support for the war in Ukraine with demonstrations and graffiti. I know this is anecdotal but I know this Russian guy born in Latvia who completely supports the war.
It's a bit like remainers and the EU I think, they just believe everything they're told because they're emotionally invested in it.
Ukraine has been criticised by Amnesty International for appearing to have put 'non-combatants' in harm's way 19 times by setting up bases in residential areas.
Amnesty claimed Ukraine's use of military bases in schools and hospitals violated "the laws of war". But it said the tactics "in no way justify Russia's indiscriminate attacks".
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ukraine-military-endangering-civilians-locating-forces-residential-areas-new
I'm sure this will be reported on the BBC news later ;)
So: later today the Russians will claim large chunks of Ukraine as their own territory. There must be a concern that the stakes have been raised somewhat here - indeed I think that's the main reason Putin has done this.
The rules of engagement will be different for Russian forces defending what is now Mother Russia. And whereas the NATO allies have been careful not to provide Ukraine with weapons to attack Russian territory, that's exactly what they'll be doing now, from the Russians' point of view.
Can't say I'll be surprised if a tactical nuclear weapon goes off some time in the next few weeks.
At the same time - there must be a lot of pressure on Putin now to wind his aggression back in. The sanctions must have hurt, his military has been humiliated and badly degraded and conscripting huge swathes of the civilian populace into the army must surely have diminished the tolerance of the general Russian public.
Roger Waters to be appointed peace envoy?
https://www.euronews.com/culture/2022/09/29/pink-floyds-roger-waters-declared-persona-non-grata-in-poland
;)
Probably no worse than Tony Bliar in that role, to be fair ;D
I agree with James on this. The World is now in such a state of biblical madness, that for the first time in my adult life I believe that a battlefield nuclear weapon will be deployed at some stage. I think Putin would be ecstatic at The West's inability to respond and it is probably inevitable that an expanding Soviet Republic will result. Perhaps it is the only way that some form of stability might eventually return.
It's about time Putin fell through a conveniently open high window.
Has Putler announced the exact borders of these annexed regions? Being as large swathes of Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia are still in Ukrainian hands.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on September 30, 2022, 01:08:07 PMI agree with James on this. The World is now in such a state of biblical madness, that for the first time in my adult life I believe that a battlefield nuclear weapon will be deployed at some stage. I think Putin would be ecstatic at The West's inability to respond and it is probably inevitable that an expanding Soviet Republic will result. Perhaps it is the only way that some form of stability might eventually return.
What??? You mean we would have wasted all that money?
Putin is spuriously claiming a few backwaters of south-eastern Ukraine after reckoning on he would take the whole country within two weeks - about nine months ago.
Even his own side isn't on his side.
And all the whataboutery about the hypocrisy of the "West" isn't convincing anybody either.
He's a desperate individual, whose objectives are clearly failing.
And that's exactly what is most worrying.
The mobilisation of males is going to have a major economic impact as well, who is going to run those factories. Also reports of a type of genocide by sending youth from the more troublesome "stans" to the front lines first.
Reports that a Russian missile has hit Poland, a NATO country of course.
(https://i.ibb.co/9gQBXSc/poland-missile.png)
I hope it turns out to be bogus.
Imagine being so inept you miss an entire country!
Quote from: Slim on November 15, 2022, 07:30:43 PMReports that a Russian missile has hit Poland, a NATO country of course.
(https://i.ibb.co/9gQBXSc/poland-missile.png)
I hope it turns out to be bogus.
I guess we'll see if this is a repeat of Obama's 'red line' in Syria
Possibilities that come to mind:
- It was a domestic gas explosion or similar
- It was caused by a stray Ukrainian surface-air missile
- The Russians did it, but it went off course into Poland
- The Russians did it as a deliberate provocation to face down NATO
I think the third possibility is the most probable. No doubt the remains of the weapon, if there was one, will be examined forensically.
Looks like it could be an S-300 which is used by both sides.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on November 15, 2022, 09:48:32 PMLooks like it could be an S-300 which is used by both sides.
Impressive USSR missile knowledge ;)
Quote from: Slim on November 15, 2022, 09:31:13 PMPossibilities that come to mind:
- It was a domestic gas explosion or similar
- It was caused by a stray Ukrainian surface-air missile
- The Russians did it, but it went off course into Poland
- The Russians did it as a deliberate provocation to face down NATO
I think the third possibility is the most probable. No doubt the remains of the weapon, if there was one, will be examined forensically.
Zelensky has already made up
his mind
Emerging that it's likely a stray Ukrainian missile.
I really don't think a single missle even if it was provocatively launched should cause a serious response. It hit a remote farm, not a populous or infrastructually important site. Obviously a sustained launch or a single one that caused materially significant damage should cause a response. I'm sorry for they 2 deaths but the shouldn't be a reason to cause many more.
Quote from: Matt2112 on November 16, 2022, 07:27:37 AMEmerging that it's a likely a stray Ukrainian missile.
Disappointment from the Ukrainian leadership, in that case
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russian-missile-hit-poland-ukraine-president-volodymyr-zelensky-slams-russia-after-2-killed-in-russian-attack-in-poland-3524155
Quote from: dom on November 16, 2022, 08:26:49 AMI really don't think a single missle even if it was provocatively launched should cause a serious response. It hit a remote farm, not a populous or infrastructually important site. Obviously a sustained launch or a single one that caused materially significant damage should cause a response. I'm sorry for they 2 deaths but the shouldn't be a reason to cause many more.
Appeasement might cost more lives in the long term. If it were to be established that the Russians deliberately fired a missile into Poland, then given that people were killed a military response would be imperative.
Eight billion people now, and we have no voice.
I looked at the missile strike location on a map last night - hard to fathom how a Ukrainian AA missile could have landed there given that it's to the west - unless it was fired to the east of an incoming Russian projectile, in the hope that it would catch it up.
I think "appeasement" is a little strong. More a weighing up of actions and their consequences.
Quote from: Slim on November 16, 2022, 11:42:38 AMI looked at the missile strike location on a map last night - hard to fathom how a Ukrainian AA missile could have landed there given that it's to the west - unless it was fired to the east of an incoming Russian projectile, in the hope that it would catch it up.
Some of these Russian missile systems don't work too well. Didn't a Ukrainian missile land in one of the former Yugoslav republics earlier in the Special Military Operation?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/
I nearly posted this in another thread...because it made me laugh
;D
82% of downed Iranian drones used by Russia in Ukraine were made in the US
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/21/politics/iranian-drones-russia-biden-task-force-us-tech-ukraine/index.html
Hey! It don't matter which side you're on...... if it makes you money!
$$$$$$$ ;D ;D ;D ;D
Well, there's a sense in which that 82% claim is correct, but it's also true in another sense to say that none of the drones used by Russia in that conflict were made in the US.
I can't see how Texas Instruments, Intel, Hewlett Packard or any other provider of processors, motherboards, camera sensors, lithium power cells or whatever else can prevent their stuff ending up in the hands of the Russians once it leaves their own distributors. The article doesn't claim that they have directly or intentionally indirectly supplied the Russian armed forces, or the Iranians who apparently make the drones.
Quote from: Slim on December 21, 2022, 06:50:24 PMWell, there's a sense in which that 82% claim is correct, but it's also true in another sense to say that none of the drones used by Russia in that conflict were made in the US.
I understood that from the get go. My tongue was
partly in my cheek with this one.
I'm sure Joe will get to the bottom of it anyway.
"No Mr. President. The
Iranians!
We explained this to you yesterday, the
Ukranians are on our side"
;D
Sellensky ;D
https://jacobin.com/2023/01/ukraine-postwar-reconstruction-western-capital-blackrock-neoliberalism
Just dropped (and, unsurprisingly, immediately dismissed by the Whitehouse):
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Seymour-Hersh-Unveils-the-Mystery-of-the-Nord-Stream-Pipeline-20230208-0011.html
https://news.sky.com/video/get-nord-stream-out-of-the-bloodstream-says-prime-minister-as-russia-ukraine-crisis-intensifies-12541960
;D
Quote from: David L on February 08, 2023, 10:08:20 PMJust dropped (and, unsurprisingly, immediately dismissed by the Whitehouse):
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Seymour-Hersh-Unveils-the-Mystery-of-the-Nord-Stream-Pipeline-20230208-0011.html
Seymour "Tinfoil Hat" Hersh.
The articles mentions the EUs main supply of gas post Nordstream was through a pipeline through Turkey. Thought Norway was Europe's biggest supplier now
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/equinor-posts-record-profit-boosted-by-soaring-gas-2022-10-28/#:~:text=%EE%80%80Equinor%EE%80%81%27s%20net%20%EE%80%80profit%EE%80%81%20for%20the%20quarter%20amounted%20to,Thursday%20each%20reported%20%EE%80%80profits%EE%80%81%20of%20more%20than%20%249
Equinor making record profits too.
I see Zelensky wants EU membership this year LOL, we'll have Germany and France begging to join us!
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on February 09, 2023, 02:45:05 PMSeymour "Tinfoil Hat" Hersh.
Or...Seymour "Pulitzer Prize" Hersh.
Poor bloke, gone from useful to a useful idiot.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on February 09, 2023, 02:45:05 PMQuote from: David L on February 08, 2023, 10:08:20 PMJust dropped (and, unsurprisingly, immediately dismissed by the Whitehouse):
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Seymour-Hersh-Unveils-the-Mystery-of-the-Nord-Stream-Pipeline-20230208-0011.html
Seymour "Tinfoil Hat" Hersh.
The articles mentions the EUs main supply of gas post Nordstream was through a pipeline through Turkey. Thought Norway was Europe's biggest supplier now
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/equinor-posts-record-profit-boosted-by-soaring-gas-2022-10-28/#:~:text=%EE%80%80Equinor%EE%80%81%27s%20net%20%EE%80%80profit%EE%80%81%20for%20the%20quarter%20amounted%20to,Thursday%20each%20reported%20%EE%80%80profits%EE%80%81%20of%20more%20than%20%249
Equinor making record profits too.
I see Zelensky wants EU membership this year LOL, we'll have Germany and France begging to join us!
Boris wants Ukrainian Eu membership!
Boris wants Ukranian citizenship
Quote from: Nick on February 09, 2023, 08:53:59 PMI see Zelensky wants EU membership this year LOL, we'll have Germany and France begging to join us!
Boris wants Ukrainian Eu membership!
[/quote]
Well he's a complete fart isn't he?
Quote from: Nick on February 09, 2023, 08:53:59 PMBoris wants Ukrainian Eu membership!
Ukraine's exactly the sort of country that it might benefit, at least in the short term. Good call. But NATO membership would do them a lot more good.
Quote from: Slim on February 09, 2023, 11:06:10 PMQuote from: Nick on February 09, 2023, 08:53:59 PMBoris wants Ukrainian Eu membership!
Ukraine's exactly the sort of country that it might benefit, at least in the short term. Good call. But NATO membership would do them a lot more good.
I can think of another that could benefit......... It's politicians would need to get their heads out of their arses first though....
"The Ukrainian data shows 824 Russian soldiers dying per day in February."
That's an appalling statistic. I suspect many of these dying Russian soldiers are new conscripts treated like cannon fodder. What an awful mess this is.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64616099
That's absolutely horrific if true. Spring offensive on the way, as well.
Not to belittle it in the slightest but I just remembered that nearly 20,000 British servicemen were killed on the first day of the Battle of the Somme.
Quote from: Slim on February 12, 2023, 08:18:38 PMThat's absolutely horrific if true. Spring offensive on the way, as well.
Not to belittle it in the slightest but I just remembered that nearly 20,000 British servicemen were killed on the first day of the Battle of the Somme.
That was on one day not every day. It is a truly horrific statistic.
Nothing to do with Russia now then! 😂😂😂
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html
Looks like Wagner's unhinged Victor Meldrew-lookalike leader has now claimed territory for himself in, erm, Russia. Could be a rebellion that blows over, could be a turning point.
Yes I'm trying to follow it as closely as I can. Could be very good, could be very bad. It can only hinder the Russian war effort in Ukraine, though.
Even if they were to succeed and depose Putin, would it make any difference? Wagner supports the war in Ukraine doesn't he? I suppose at least the distraction benefits the Ukrainians. I understand that 97% of the Russian army are involved in the Ukraine war so never a better time to stage a coup. You'd imagine they:d have to get the Russian air force onside pretty quick if they are to stand any chance
I think the whole thing is a charade designed by Putin. It gives him the opportunity to go to his people stating that troop withdrawal from Ukraine is the only way he can guarantee Russia's security in the short term. He saves face (sort of), his lunatic Wagner mate gets a pardon, a mega large brown envelope and Belarus gets whatever they asked for.
Quote from: Slim on June 24, 2023, 11:50:14 AMYes I'm trying to follow it as closely as I can. Could be very good, could be very bad. It can only hinder the Russian war effort in Ukraine, though.
Unfortunately it's all fizzled out too quickly. :(
Could have been very interesting.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on June 24, 2023, 09:25:21 PMQuote from: Slim on June 24, 2023, 11:50:14 AMYes I'm trying to follow it as closely as I can. Could be very good, could be very bad. It can only hinder the Russian war effort in Ukraine, though.
Unfortunately it's all fizzled out too quickly. :(
Could have been very interesting.
Could have been very dangerous, if hadn't all been staged like an X-Factor episode. Moments like these, if real, would make me hope that the US spy infiltration system would be sufficiently embedded to persuade the Russian subs to head for asylum at the nearest American base. If that could happen and the Russian system went into meltdown, I imagine the Americans and NATO would neutralise the remaining land based missile threat.
Wtf is this Richard/Robert Wagner bloke playing at??
The US are sending cluster bombs for use in Ukraine. Banned by many nations (including the UK) because they can cause injury, especially to children, for years after their deployment.
Way to go, Joe!
Quote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 01:09:25 PMThe US are sending cluster bombs for use in Ukraine. Banned by many nations (including the UK) because they can cause injury, especially to children, for years after their deployment.
Way to go, Joe!
The human race is beyond comprehension in that it sets parameters for the acceptability or otherwise of the various horrific ways to kill each other.
We used them in the Falklands conflict. I think we used them in Kosovo as well. I've just read that we used them in Iraq. As long as they go off when they're supposed to I don't have a problem with them.
There are no 'rules of war'. When the fighting starts everything goes out the windows. It is silly to think agreements can be made otherwise.
Quote from: Slim on July 07, 2023, 04:46:18 PMWe used them in the Falklands conflict. I think we used them in Kosovo as well. I've just read that we used them in Iraq. As long as they go off when they're supposed to I don't have a problem with them.
;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
Quote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 05:19:01 PM;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
That's going back a bit.
Quote from: Slim on July 07, 2023, 08:35:33 PMQuote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 05:19:01 PM;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
That's going back a bit.
Churchill was determined we would use them (and everything else) if Germans ever set foot on our shores. I think that's what has to be considered here. Ukraine is an innocent invaded country. You do that to a nation, you deserve all that you get back and then some.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 08, 2023, 03:58:40 PMQuote from: Slim on July 07, 2023, 08:35:33 PMQuote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 05:19:01 PM;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
That's going back a bit.
Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.
Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that
Quote from: David L on July 08, 2023, 07:58:07 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 08, 2023, 03:58:40 PMQuote from: Slim on July 07, 2023, 08:35:33 PMQuote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 05:19:01 PM;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
That's going back a bit.
Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.
Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that
But the Russians have been bomarding Donbas too.
The EU have been very keen on altering the political situation in Ukraine too to encourage their enlargement.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on July 08, 2023, 09:24:45 PMQuote from: David L on July 08, 2023, 07:58:07 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 08, 2023, 03:58:40 PMQuote from: Slim on July 07, 2023, 08:35:33 PMQuote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 05:19:01 PM;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
That's going back a bit.
Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.
Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that
But the Russians have been bomarding Donbas too.
The EU have been very keen on altering the political situation in Ukraine too to encourage their enlargement.
Yes, when I said US/west, it was the EU I was thinking of.
Apparently Hitler attempted to export Ukrainian soil in box-cars to Germany during WW2. The country is covered in around 15ft of the most fertile soil on earth. Monsanto and others would love to own that and control food security.
Just another element to a complicated situation. The nuance that the BBC et al steer well clear of.
Quote from: Nickslikk2112 on July 08, 2023, 09:24:45 PMQuote from: David L on July 08, 2023, 07:58:07 PMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 08, 2023, 03:58:40 PMQuote from: Slim on July 07, 2023, 08:35:33 PMQuote from: David L on July 07, 2023, 05:19:01 PM;D
We used chlorine and mustard gas in WW1 too
That's going back a bit.
Ukraine is an innocent invaded country.
Is that really the case though? Even though it's been bombarding ethnic Russians in the Donbas for years, sponsored by NATO? That along with a concerted effort by the US/west to influence and change Ukranian politics towards US hegemoney makes the situation a lot less simplistic than that
But the Russians have been bomarding Donbas too.
The EU have been very keen on altering the political situation in Ukraine too to encourage their enlargement.
I think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 09, 2023, 11:03:38 AMI think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.
It'll never be up to them anyway.
Quote from: Slim on July 09, 2023, 11:08:53 AMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 09, 2023, 11:03:38 AMI think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.
It'll never be up to them anyway.
Well, it might be. This world is in a state of flux now and I don't think mankind realises just how bad things are. Ok, I admit I heard my grandfather say similar things back in the 70s, but we are without doubt on the very brink of some extreme changes and issues. I have an acquaintance (used to be a friend) who has a hatred for the US but despite their many, many faults and failings I wonder just where we would be without them.
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 09, 2023, 11:37:52 AMQuote from: Slim on July 09, 2023, 11:08:53 AMQuote from: The Picnic Wasp on July 09, 2023, 11:03:38 AMI think that's fair enough. The EU collective are less likely to be persuaded by some extreme left or right wing mad(person) to take us to WWIII.
It'll never be up to them anyway.
Well, it might be. This world is in a state of flux now and I don't think mankind realises just how bad things are. Ok, I admit I heard my grandfather say similar things back in the 70s, but we are without doubt on the very brink of some extreme changes and issues. I have an acquaintance (used to be a friend) who has a hatred for the US but despite their many, many faults and failings I wonder just where we would be without them.
Less obese.......probably
I think the penny may have finally dropped for Zelensky, that he and his people are being used by the US and the EU
If that's true, it's certainly to his people's advantage.
Quote from: Slim on July 12, 2023, 10:42:17 AMIf that's true, it's certainly to his people's advantage.
It will be years (if ever) before they are a free nation, even if Russia are defeated
The USA are using Ukraine (and have been for years) as the 'next excuse' for rinsing western taxpayers to support the Military Industrial Complex. The MINSK accord set out guidelines for Peace. The US/CIA destabilized Ukraine and Zolensky is their glove-puppet. The Donbas is the Eurasian version of Palestine. The USA pushed and pushed against previous anti-expansionist agreements so Putin pushed back, first with Crimea and then with the invasion. Putin is obviously a nut job but I don't think he is ultimately responsible for where we are now, it's been a long-game to keep the shareholders of Haliburton / Raytheon / Lockheed-Martin / Carlisle etc. rich. They also need to smash it up some more so they can secure contracts to rebuild it all! Where's Julian Assange when you need him?
Quote from: Basspedalman on July 13, 2023, 03:36:07 PMWhere's Julian Assange when you need him?
Hopefully in a cell somewhere with electrodes strapped to his nether regions.
Look at how the US are dragging their feet over F-16s and look at how the EU were encouraging Ukraine to be its own state back in the day.
NATO propaganda, eh? Oh dear. I had high hopes for the Internet 25 years ago, now I sometimes think the whole thing should just be switched off.
Did a bit of googling about Dore. He also believes that the chemical weapons attack in Syria was carried out by the Americans, and that the WTC attack was a "false flag" operation. Hilariously, he believes that the term "conspiracy theorist" was invented by the CIA, which would be fantastic satire if he didn't actually believe it. Inevitably, he believes that the COVID vaccines are unsafe.
I am a little concerned about the amount of categorical misinformation that this site is being used as a medium for. I will think about what action to take about this. It's a great shame that there needs to be a policy about this for a site frequented by a small number of mature adults, but apparently there does.
Wikipedia?
I wonder what happened here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66599733
As well as:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12414007/Russian-general-charge-Ukrainian-invasion-purged-Putin-dead.html
and:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12415979/Jailed-Russian-general-69-knew-secrets-Putins-1billion-Black-Sea-palace-dies-mysteriously-prison-ahead-parole-bid-second-Kremlin-commander-perish-days.html
and in another story:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12426459/Russian-astronomer-advisor-Putins-disastrous-Luna-25-mission-Moon-rushed-hospital-unmanned-spacecraft-CRASHED.html
I bet Putin's chef never serves mushrooms.
Well I didn't think he'd last long, but taking out six other passengers and three crew - that's unfortunate.
In other news, outcomes for Indian aircraft and spacecraft rather better.
Yeah, moon missions and a nuclear arsenal. Just as well there's nothing else in the country needing any financial assistance.
Quote from: Slim on August 23, 2023, 07:46:44 PMWell I didn't think he'd last long, but taking out six other passengers and three crew - that's unfortunate.
I think a number of other Wagner members were in the plane too - bit of a blunt tool though and the crew point still stands
Interesting interview with Hungarian leader Viktor Orban. I wonder if we'd get as much sense if it was the leader of the free world in his place?
A fracture in the EU/NATO over the support for Ukraine. Poland will no longer help fund the US's proxy war but will spend their money on their own defences. I guess they can see that there is likely no end in sight and no limit to what the US are prepared to spend in dollars (and Ukranian lives) in order to degrade Russia's capabilities.
How is that 'spring offensive' going? ???
Ukraine's 'spring offensive' seems to be going rather better than Russia's 'saunter into Ukraine and take it within a month'.
Quote from: Matt2112 on September 23, 2023, 09:02:27 PMUkraine's 'spring offensive' seems to be going rather better than Russia's 'saunter into Ukraine and take it within a month'.
Just not much progress being reported on MSM after the big build-up. Worth remembering it was western media that described Russia's ambitions.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/24/nazi-linked-veteran-ovation-zelenkyy-canada-visit-00117857
That "Nazi" word is doing some mighty heavy lifting there. Millions of Germans served in the armed forces under the Nazis.
Actually if you do a bit of reading, the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division has an interesting history. They only undertook an oath of allegiance to Hitler on the condition that it was based on their fight against the Russians. The formation of the division was conditional on the stipulation that it would not be used to fight the Western allies. There was no Nazi indoctrination. And it was viewed by the Ukrainian public as a stepping stone toward their independence.
In essence, a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Quote from: Slim on September 25, 2023, 08:18:50 PMThat "Nazi" word is doing some mighty heavy lifting there. Millions of Germans served in the armed forces under the Nazis.
Actually if you do a bit of reading, the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division has an interesting history. They only undertook an oath of allegiance to Hitler on the condition that it was based on their fight against the Russians. The formation of the division was conditional on the stipulation that it would not be used to fight the Western allies. There was no Nazi indoctrination. And it was viewed by the Ukrainian public as a stepping stone toward their independence.
In essence, a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Hmmm, seemed offensive enough to the Jewish community.
You might not know as much as them....but you probably know waaaaay more than the floppy-haired fascist
;D ;)
BBC Newsnight this evening:
"The Ukranian counter-offensive has failed to dramatically breakthrough"
If the BBC are describing the progress in those terms, you can bet the reality for the poor Ukranian forces is even more sobering
Quote from: David L on September 26, 2023, 11:02:42 PMBBC Newsnight this evening:
"The Ukranian counter-offensive has failed to dramatically breakthrough"
If the BBC are describing the progress in those terms, you can bet the reality for the poor Ukranian forces is even more sobering
But it might well be making incremental breakthroughs. Which could lead to bigger ones. To think Putler thought he'd roll over Ukraine in a few days.
I think Russell is a long way off the money there, as usual. Putin has considered Ukraine to be part of Russian territory since before he came to power and his claim that "NATO knew that their actions and expansions would lead to this war" merely based on something Putin is supposed to have ranted is weapons grade bollocks.
:D :D
https://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-ukraine-corruption-eu-accession/
Quote from: David L on October 06, 2023, 11:41:07 AM:D :D
https://www.politico.eu/article/jean-claude-juncker-ukraine-corruption-eu-accession/
Pot meet Kettle ;D
Germays has refused to supply Ukraine with long-range Taurus missiles.
Wise move IMHO
Oh look, they've found a 'fall guy' for the destruction of Nordstream ;D
https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/ukrainian-officer-coordinated-nord-stream-attack-washington-post/
Of course, no one is interested anymore....conveniently. And I'm sure many wouldn't equate this murky episode with their struggle to pay their bills
Hysterical straw man nonsense. The essential argument for supporting the war in Ukraine is the simple fact that Russia invaded it.
Quote from: Slim on February 14, 2024, 10:55:57 AMHysterical straw man nonsense. The essential argument for supporting the war in Ukraine is the simple fact that Russia invaded it.
There's nothing simple about that conflict
Yeah, Putin's just misunderstood. He wouldn't murder anyone on British soil, steal Ukrainian children or lock up his political enemies for decades, would he?
Quote from: The Picnic Wasp on February 14, 2024, 12:01:19 PMYeah, Putin's just misunderstood. He wouldn't murder anyone on British soil, steal Ukrainian children or lock up his political enemies for decades, would he?
He has done all of that, of course. Very bad man. But do the Ukranians deserve to lose a generation and have their country turned to a wasteland because the US say it's worth it? Even if the US government say they are prepared to spend as much as it takes, for as long as it takes, their citizens will disagree. As in most cases a negotiation is how this will end, the alternative is too bleak to contemplate.
Quote from: David L on February 14, 2024, 01:51:01 PMHe has done all of that, of course. Very bad man. But do the Ukranians deserve to lose a generation and have their country turned to a wasteland because the US say it's worth it?
Another straw man.
Jailed Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny is dead, That's handy for Putin
Think you could easily remove 'handy for' from your last sentence
Disgraceful rhetoric. Weasel of a man.
Looks like the New York Times is beginning to explore whether it's accurate to describe Russia's invasion as "unprovoked"
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/cia-ukraine-russia/
It's that "justified or not" qualification that's doing quite a bit of heavy lifting, there.
If an ally mentions a fact that's common knowledge, is it still an intelligence breach?
Legally yes, certainly, if it's classified. But I think you're referring to a proposition that wasn't known, but was speculated to be highly likely. Not common knowledge.